Chase Ink Plus 70,000 Point Signup Bonus Ending This Sunday!


Related posts:
-30 Awesome Things You Can You Do With 75K-95K Ultimate Rewards Points
Building Credit And Credit Card FAQs: Your Questions Answered

Chase Ink Plus 70K Limited Time Offer Linky

Offer Details:

Spend $5,000 in 3 months on a new Chase Ink Plus card and get a whopping 70,000 point signup bonus. The Chase Ink Plus business cards is one of the best credit cards out there and this is the highest ever public online offer.  Some people have been able to get this offer in-branch, but now it’s available online for everyone.

It’s not difficult at all to get a value of 1.75 cents per point when using Chase Ultimate Rewards points for travel by transferring them into airline miles or hotel points. That would make this signup bonus worth over $1,200!

You’ll also earn between 5,000 and 25,000 bonus points for the base spending depending on whether you spend in 1, 2, or 5 point per dollar categories.  So after spending $5,000 you’ll have between 75,000-95,000 Ultimate Rewards points at your disposal.

There is a $95 annual fee. There are no foreign exchange fees on the Ink Plus card. Insurance coverage on car rentals in every country outside of the US is primary on leisure or business rentals. Within the US coverage is primary for business rentals and secondary on leisure rentals.

Applying for a business card and the benefits of business card spending:

The Ink cards are business cards. But you may be already running a business that qualifies for a business card and there are several huge advantages that business cards have over consumer cards as you can read here.

For example if your name is Joe Smith and you sell items online, or if you have any other side business/hobby and want a credit card to better keep track of business expenditures you can just open a business credit card for “Joe Smith Sole Proprietorship” as the business name. You don’t need to file any messy government paperwork to be allowed to do that.
Just be sure to select “Sole Proprietorship” as the business type and just use your social security number in the Tax Identification Number field as well as in the social security number field.

If you’re like me and you run more than one business you can signup for multiple of the same card for each business to manage each businesses expenses separately.

A great thing about these business cards is that they don’t report your spending on your personal credit report.

On personal cards if you spend money on your card your credit score will be hurt even if you pay your bill on time. A whopping 30% of your credit score is based on credit utilization. You can pay off your card before your statement is generated to avoid that, but that takes effort and laying out money well before you have to. Additionally it’s good to have the statement close with a few dollars to show the card is active and being paid every month.

On a business card it’s just not reported, so you can wait until the money is due without it having a negative effect on your score. Plus if you close a business card it won’t ever have an effect on your score.

Lounge Club:

You’ll also getive 2 free lounge visits per user, even on free additional user cards. Here is a link to find valid lounges worldwide. Lounges include the Dan Lounge in Tel Aviv and the Art & Lounge in Newark which both have kosher food.

Cash back:

Ink cards are now all issued as Visa cards, so you can register them for Visa Savings Edge.

With that program you earn cash back on top of points.  You’ll earn 1% cash back at Staples on $200+ purchases, 1% cash back at Chevron, and Texaco, 2% cash back at TigerDirect, 4% cash back at Alamo and National, 5% cash back at Lenovo, Sony, and several hotel brands, etc.

Bonus points:

Ink cards offer 5 points per dollar on internet/cable service and telecom purchases, so that’s a nice rebate when you purchase a new cell phone and off your cable bill.

They also earn 5 points per dollar at office supply stores. There are hundreds of gift cards sold by office supply stores.

-Upgrading at your local carrier’s store to an iPhone or Galaxy? 5 points per dollar.
-Buying gift cards for gas? 5 points per dollar plus you’ll pay the lower cash rates at the pump.
-Buying gift cards for Amazon, Gap, Groupon, Kohl’s, Macy’s, Marshalls, Nordstrom, Southwest Airlines, TJMaxx, etc? 5 points per dollar.

Points plus cash back:

At Staples of course you would earn 5 points per dollar plus 1% cash back on $200+ purchases.

You’ll also earn 2 points per dollar for spending directly on gas and hotels (plus 1%-5% cash back with Visa Savings Edge)

Gift card uses:

Your local school or other charity will be more than happy to accept donations of Amazon gift cards for supplies or any other useful gift cards for chinese auctions, raffles, fundraisers, etc.

They will give you a tax deductible receipt for the full face value-the price you paid for the gift cards. And at the same time you’ll earn 5 points per dollar. So while doing good you can still get a nice chunk of points and you’ll save on your taxes.

You can buy $200 Visa gift cards (now sold online from Staples) that earn 1,000 points and can be used to pay bills with EvolveMoney, uploaded to Bluebird or used for cash back, bill pay, money orders, etc.

Or you can use Visa gift cards for everyday spending thereby getting 5 points per dollar on everything you buy anywhere via the Visa gift cards.  You can read how lucrative that can be in this post on where you should be using each of your cards.

Point Currency:

Chase Ultimate Rewards offer instant and fee-free transfers to top-notch mileage and points programs at a 1:1 ratio.

Transfer partners include:
United (Star Alliance) is still an excellent currency, even after their devaluation earlier this year.  They never charge fuel surcharges, have very flexible routing rules, they allow one-way awards for half the mileage, they have short-haul awards for 10,000 miles, they allow for a stopover and an open-jaw so that you can really maximize a single award ticket into several free trips, and they have dozens of partners to fly on, most of which can be booked on their website.
British Airways (OneWorld) is awesome for short-haul awards. Just 9,000 miles for a round-trip zone 1 or 15,000 miles for zone 2 short-haul award. The zone 3 award for 25,000 miles round-trip can also be a bargain, for example a flight between the west coast and any of the Hawaiian islands or between Boston and Ireland is just 25K miles round-trip with no fuel surcharges. Flights to Israel on Air Berlin are just 60,000 miles with no fuel surcharges. They allow one-way awards for half the mileage. There are no close-in or expedite fees. You can cancel an award for as little as $5.60. Infants are only charged 10% of the miles on international trips instead of 10% of the full fare like US carriers charge. Plus they don’t collect fuel surcharges on AA/USAirways within the western hemisphere, on Qantas within Australia, on Air Berlin, Aer Lingus, Alaska, or LAN and you can transfer points to Iberia to limit fuel surcharges there as well.
You can read more in the BA knowledgebase. And you can see 102 places you can go to nonstop from NYC with Avios.
Korean (Skyteam) offers unbeatable first class availability (A380 First Class Trip Report here) and they also have true bargains on partner travel, just 30,000 miles to fly round-trip on Hawaiian or Alaska to Hawaii in coach or 60,000 miles in first. And it’s just 20,000 miles to fly to Alaska in coach or 40,000 miles in first. You can even get a free stopover on the way to or in Alaska! If you can find Delta saver availability you can fly to Hawaii round-trip for just 25,000 miles in coach or 45,000 miles in business.
Singapore (Star Alliance) offers private walled-in first class suites that can only be booked with their miles. A suite one-way from JFK to Europe is 57,375 miles. Travel to the US48, Hawaii, Alaska, Europe, and Israel can all be had on the cheap. There are no close-in booking fees and changes and cancellations are very cheap. Fuel surcharges apply when flying on most airlines besides United. More info here.
Southwest offers a value of about 1.7 cents per point towards award travel.  Plus you get 2 free checked bags, free flight changes or flight cancellations. and you can even get a point refund if the price of your flight goes down. You can also transfer points to Airtran for flat-rate awards like business class upgrades or free tickets at a flat rate instead of a rate that corresponds to the ticket price. From Airtran they can even be converted back into the old Southwest program that also offers flat rate awards.
Virgin Atlantic has some niche uses with awards on Delta and Cyprus Air.  For example a round-trip from Tel Aviv to Cyprus is just 5,000 miles!
Hyatt is a very powerful hotel currency. They have finally added a cash and points option that offers some excellent values and more importantly those stays earn points, elite stay credits, promo credits, and you can use suite upgrades on cash and point stays as well.  It remains far less expensive for high-end hotel stays than any other hotel program, a $1,500/night villa at the Park Hyatt Maldives would run just 25,000 points or 12,500 points+$150.
You can also funnel points through Hyatt to Southwest to qualify for a free Southwest Companion Pass which gives you a free companion every time you pay for or redeem for a free ticket.
-You can also transfer points to Marriott, Ritz Carlton, Priority Club, and Amtrak. I’ve never been on an Amtrak in my life, but some people have reported getting some really nice bargains on Amtrak travel via their program.

The beauty of miles over points or cash-back:
The great thing about being able to transfer points into airlines or hotels are the incredible values you can attain.
-A coach ticket to Hawaii can cost $1,000 and a first class ticket to Hawaii can cost $3,000 but you can use 25K or 45K miles for that same ticket. If you were using Capital One points you would need 100,000-300,000 points per ticket.
-A last minute ticket or a ticket where you don’t stay for 3 nights from New York to Detroit costs $1,500 in coach but just 9,000 miles. That’s a value of 16.7 cents per mile. If you were using Capital One points you would need 150,000 points per ticket.
-A first class ticket to Asia can cost $27,000 but you can use 135,000 miles for that same ticket, a value of 20 cents per mile. If you were using Capital One points you would need 2,700,000 points per ticket.
-A night at a Park Hyatt in Paris, Sydney, or the Maldives can run $1,500 with tax but you can use 25K-30K points for that room, a value of 5-6 cents per point. Or you can use less points and get even better values with cash and points. If you were using Capital One points you would need 150,000 points per night.
And that’s all besides for the fact that getting a Capital One card costs a minimum of 3 credit pulls whereas you can get several Chase cards with just 1 credit pull.


Other Chase cards you can apply for at the same time include the Chase British Airways (50K signup points, 1.25 Avios per dollar, and an annual companion award ticket if you spend $30K+ in a  year), and the Chase United Explorer (30K signup points plus another 5K points for adding a free additional user, and it gives free luggage, free primary car rental insurance including in the US and Israel, expanded saver and standard award ticket availability, priority boarding, and more), the Chase Sapphire Preferred (40K signup points plus another 5K points for adding a free additional user, no fee the first year, free primary car rental insurance including in the US and Israel, plus 2-2.14 points per dollar on travel and dining with no Foreign Exchange fees), the Chase Marriott (with 50K signup points plus a free night upon signup and a free night every subsequent year upon renewal), the Chase Freedom (which has no annual fee, gives 5 points per dollar in rotating categories, and 10% bonus points through 2015 if you have a Chase checking account), and the Chase Ink Cash (which also has no annual fee and gives 5 points per dollar on telecom/office supplies and 2 points per dollar on dining and gas)

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209 Comments on "Chase Ink Plus 70,000 Point Signup Bonus Ending This Sunday!"

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Any good ideas what to couple this with for a mbm


Can anything be done about the annual fee?


I currently have this card active. Can i get approved for another one under the same business and receive the bonus?


“-Virgin Atlantic has some niche uses with awards on Delta and Cyprus Air. For example a round-trip from Tel Aviv to Cyprus is just 5,000 miles!”… virgin Atlantic told me yesterday that they u can no longer book Cyprus Air using Virgin Atlantic miles


Great! Dan, how long do you think it appropriate to reapply for this card after getting denied due to too many inquiries? (8!)


Anyway to sign up with these without having business revenue?


If I apply for this and a personal card will it be one credit pull or two?


Is Chase Ink Plus the same as Chase Ink? I already have Chase Ink, can I take advantage of this offer?


Any idea if they will match the 70k through an SM for someone who just got this at 50k?


Is 2 or 3 bm still working with chase.
last time I tried was denied
anyone having luck???


I literally just got approved for the 50k. 3 hrs ago. What are the chances they match me to the 70k?


See the end of the post?

A $95 fee is going to stop you from getting a 70K bonus?

Unlikely they’ll give you 2 of the same card for the same business.

Still showing on the website, I’d HUCA.

Not really a science, just up to the rep and your HUCA skills.

You can get a card for a new business and write the expected annual revenue.


There are several Ink cards, depends which one you have.
You can call and ask which one it is.

Unlikely as this offer has an annual fee.

Still works fine, HUCA and have a good reason for wanting the cards.

Unfortunately small as the 50K offer had the fee waived and this one has an annual fee, but you can definitely try.


Dan, I just closed my ink plus at the end of June 2014. Do you think I can get approved again?


@JimJam: @Albert: I had the same thing last time (with 60k) and they said they match within 30 days.


@abka Yes, they will waive it the first year.

@levi Sometimes you can, otherwise read Dan’s tips in the post.

@curious Yes you can. They will often ask you to call in to verify information, but rarely ask about revenue. Even if they do you can make a number up that sounds sane and if you don’t wanna fib then apply as dan mentions above and use your personal income as the number.

@benny Most likely two. I did it the same day and they pulled once for each.

@Albert I just SM’d them. I’ll let you know what they say.


@Dan the 50k I got was with the annual fee as well.


Lol, where did you find a 50K offer with an annual fee?

If you really applied for a card with an annual fee then there’s a good chance they’ll match it.


When you apply, do they give you the answer immediately and if not does that mean that you may not get it?


If I have one for my Business could I open another one for “my name sole proprietor” ?


SM wouldn’t match me to 70K but they matched me to 60K.


The difference between this and the 50k offer (or recent 60k offer) is that the $95 annual fee is not waived for the first year for this 70k offer whereas it was for the other. I think you should definitely call and ask to be matched to the 70k offer, but if you had the 60k offer, the increase in points is essentially negligible taking into account that you never had to pay the $95.



How do you know they will waive the AF?


Been trying to get approved for the ink card forever dan, they keep on saying I don’t have enough business history! Any suggestions??


If I have an ink bold, can I get this card for the same business?


Just because you don’t get instant approval doesn’t mean you’re not approved.

There isn’t a limit of the number of businesses you can get a card for.


I would buy 10K UR points for $95 every single day.
They’re worth far more than that.

After forever you should have enough business history by now :D



@Dan: Of course not, but a getting the fee waived is still something to inquire about.


got rejected for this card 5 months ago, said too many accounts opened (3) what are my chances of them approving me now?


They’re not going to waive the fee right away unless you spend a lot of money or cancel the card.

Definitely worth trying by now.

clear thinker

Probably the same chances like then it may or may not happen if “you” believe you should get approved then there is no reason not to be able to convince a representative to give you!
Just be persuasive & don’t give up.


does a pre-approval letter for this offer sent in the mail make your chances better to be approved?



How much is a lot? is $5000 enough in your estimation?


There’s no such thing as being pre-approved for a credit card.

Pre-approval is just something they send to people who have a good chance for approval.
But it doesn’t help at all.

Really depends on your personal income, credit score, and the future of the business.
Ultimately it’s up to the phone rep you talk to, so it’s up to you to make the case.


@Dan If I just got an Ink card 6 months ago, can I still apply for another one? Thanks


Can these points be transferred to my personal Chase UR account since I have a Sapphire proffered?


If you are approved you’ll get the points. Do you currently have an Ink Plus card for the business you are applying for?



Do you see the 50K SW cards on the horizon? Would like to wait on this until those come out.


can I do a 3 bm with the same browser and just use multiple tabs?


I have the Chase business Ink(mc) and I cancelled a few months ago my chase Bold because of the renewal fee. Any advantage or disadvantage with this Chase InkPlus over the other 2 cards? other than Visa savings Edge & 70k bonus


I did’nt got approved a few weaks ago, Should I try again?


No, use 3 different browsers & be aware when doing 3 apps by chase most reps won’t allow you more then 2 cards in 30 days.


Will 3bm work with one pull if I put 3 different businesses for this same card?


Dan how do you think this is connected to them discontinuing the ink Bold card?


Oops submitted twice




Hard to say when those come around. But even if you get this now you can always get that when it come back.

No, use different browsers.

The Plus card allows you to pay over time, the Bold does not.

It should.

They are going to focus on this card going forward as they phase out the Bold card.

Might not properly submit the apps.
Why not download more browsers?

Dovid Freund

Quick trick: if you get an email saying it will take 30 days to get a desicion you prob will not be approved. You can reverse the desicion and get approved by calling them and explain the business to them. That almost always works to get the approval


I read that I could transfer the bonus points to my southwest rapid rewards account….Is that true…if yes, should I do that?


Looks like the rules may have changed for Staples and others – the application says you get up to 5% cash back for those type of purchases and not points. How does that affect the deal?

G׳mar chatima tova!


Are visa gift cards at staples considered ‘qualifying purchases’ by visa edge and earn 1% cash back?


Just curious if you heard any rumors about the 50K SW because the GetPeyd guys sure think it’s coming up (based on their newsletter).

I think that going for this card (whether I get approved or not) would significantly hurt my chances of getting the SW cards in a few weeks as I would have a pull and possibly a newly opened Chase card. From my experience, that can be very hard to deal with during recon. Would rather go for all of them at once, if the SW offer comes up.

@Dovid Freund:
That’s correct that you can call to discuss, but check out the recent posts in ,url=]this[/url] thread to see how people have been having difficulty with Chase business recon recently.

@David: You can transfer them to a lot of airlines/hotels. Only you can decide what will be best for your situation/needs.

@JoshIM: Chase refers to it as 5% Cash Back, but you really get 5x the points – which can be redeemed for 5% Cash Back. You will get a much higher ROI if you transfer to a partner and redeem for flights/hotels.

@Moe: Sorry I’m not Dan, but yes, Visa Savings Edge does work for VGC’s bought at Staples.


Dan, I just about a month ago got approved by amex for a few card ( with 3mb) do u think that I should try to apply for this as well? I wanted to wait about 4 months till I apply but this good offer is smiling to me.


Any way to get approved for both the Ink and Ink Bold? Also if I apply for another card will it hurt my chances?


Dan, you posted Other Chase cards you can apply for at the same time , does it have to be different browsers?


Hi Dan,
I have been AA’d by Chase in December and I hear ppl are having trouble getting approved after AA, is there any chance? And what do you tell them to convince?

dans the man

how can i find availability on air berlin? nothing coming up on ba website… do i need to call?


Got the “decision pending” email. Called Reconsideration immediately, answered all his questions in a coherent, sensible and confident manner and was approved!


@bob @simon i got declined few months ago and just got approved after calling the lending department


You only listed a few other chase cards that could be applied for at the same – did u just list a few examples or are the others (such as the marriott card) not be applied for at same time?

Dovid Freund

@slabodka, good move. As long as your nice and have your story straight it normally works. Good thing you called b/c decision pending normally means you wont get the approval



I have a past(2 years old) stain on my credit bec I owe money to a collection agency for a hospital bill that’s 5 years old, my experian credit score is currently 712. Do you think its worth applying for this?


@Dan: Yes, I have an Ink for this business, (and a bold). Can you get approved of multiple ink cards for the same business? I can honestly say they are devoted to track different expenses of different divisions of the business (on profit)


@Dovid Freund: It always means you won’t get approved unless you call. Even if u you have “your story” straight it really depends on the agent. Some are really bad. A woman @ Chase in business recon dept it terrible starts telling you she knows you’re only buying gift cards, MS, etc. If you get someone that starts talking like that hang up BEFORE she “processes” your application and talk to someone normal.

Dan's the man

Dan, you predicted it a while back…
El Al ended their partnership with AA last week as you predicted and just announced they will be code sharing with JetBlue also like you predicted.

ht: Dan’s the Man


@slabodka same here.
first time i was ever accepted for a chase card but only after i called right away (like 5 minutes after the “pending decision”). any who got this response should call them

@Dovid Freund .. so true


Are there specific SQ routes which generally have better Suites availability when booking far in advance? Finding two seems particularly difficult.


Dan’s predictions are coming true… Dan – any idea what the winning lottery numbers are for Powerball?


Is there any way they should close my card if I get approved because they noticed somehow that this is not a real business?


You wrote that upgrading phone to iPhone at local carrier would get 5x, but my sister used her Ink card to buy an iPhone 6 at the AT&T store and didn’t get 5x. Did others have a different experience?


Did you read the post?

It’s the same thing.
Ill-informed people cash out the points for a penny each when they could be transferring it to far more valuable airlines or hotels.


I mean it does tend to come and go a few times a year, so it’s hard to mess up a prediction like that ;)

No reason to wait.

There is no plain “Ink” card.

It ought to be.

Depends on why you were shut down.

@dans the man:
Try searching nonstop segments on,


Added the Marriott for you ;)
They’re just examples.

If you don’t try you won’t know.

You can, but it may take some HUCAs.

It does not always mean that.

@Dan’s the man:
Yup, was posted on DDF earlier today.

I’ve booked several JFK-FRA flights in suites.

The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

You need to have a business to get approved. But you are allowed to get an Ink card without a traditional business.

Getting a card for eBay sales is legit. And nobody is shutting you down after approval unless you break the rules,

I got 5x at Verizon.


How do i know if i have the BOLD or PLUS? it doesn’t say on the card or online


Bold will say Bold on it.
Otherwise it can be Cash, Classic, or Plus. Gotta call and ask.


I am thinking of applying for the Plus, Cash and Marriott Business. (I have the bold)
This way they are all business so should hopefully it will be one pull.

Sounds right?


I have a corporation plus a dba can I apply for both at one time and get approve for it ?
If so can I try to open for more companies (sole p) ?


Found on the plane – see if it works
Valid till 9/30/14
50,000 points for $2000 spend $99AF


@Dan: too much available credit (credit report related according to official reason) nothing with perk abuse.any chance?


@Dan – I cancelled an Ink Plus card on June 1. Too soon to apply? If I apply and get approved, will I get the bonus?



If I don’t have a business yet but planning in opening can I apply for this card? And if yes what should I write as my total yearly income?



They couldn’t match to 70k, but they gave me 10k bonus points. The lesson is, it never hurts to ask.


@Dan is it 5 points per dollar for cell phone bill as well? I’m asking because you only seemed to mention cell phone purchases.

Ivana Cheong

I applied for both the CSP and the Ink Plus (currently have Freedom only) and got pending for both.

When I called the number given, which I think is directly for the business line, the guy wanted articles of incorporation, or certificate of formation and such, even when I said I am all online (freelance writing) and don’t have a storefront. He said, “Well, that’s inconvenient,” and basically left it at that.

And then I called the CS/app line. The automated message said 7-10 days for both. Erggh… denied?? I don’t know.

I spoke to a CS rep who said that he can’t see much on his end. He doesn’t think I need anymore information, and they are currently just reviewing.


sam gucci

I got a message that they need to review my application and will mail the results to me. is it worth calling them?

sam gucci

also are all the different chase charge or credit cards considered different products in regards to being eligible for the signup bonus?

Ari G

Can business and personal cards count as one pull?

Ari L

Sorry if these were asked:

1) What do ppl use to fill in the other fields for cards not for a specific business? (legal name, years in business, revenue, etc.)

2) What are some good arguments for the reconsideration line if I am rejected?

clear thinker

Write in the “projected” income of the business.


I also got a message that they need to review my application and will mail the results to me.
I already have a Chase Southwest Business with 17k credit line opened last year, would not mind transferring most of it to the new card or even close it before the yearly fee in November.

I would appreciate if you post the Reconsideration phone number.


how much time must have passed since i cancelled this card last in order for me to be able to get this bonus again now?


Just called the 1-800 number. Spoke to a rep, and asked him why I typically get approved immediately, but this time I got the 30 day wait period. He informed me that since its a business card (and my first one) they require additional time to verify. He then put me on hold for 30 seconds and said I was approved. He mentioned that the 30 day waiting period allows them some time to do some in depth review if necessary- it does not mean you will be denied. Of course, calling them saved me some time. Oh- and he did not ask me a single question about my business –even though i had come up with a great business plan :)


Re: Dan wrote – On a business card it’s just not reported, so you can wait until the money is due without it having a negative effect on your score. Plus if you close a business card it won’t ever have an effect on your score.
I was approved, but told that g-d forbid IF I defaulted on this business card, they DO go after my personal assets.
So, it must affect your personal score if they transfer the debt to your personal credit report.


Dan quick question. I was approved for this card (30 minutes ago) did I lose my chance to get another card through chase without getting a seperate hard credit pull. If not, how long do I have (1 hr.? 24 hrs? 1 week??)


I got the ink card for 60,000 recently.
I know you made a post about sm’ing chase to match a 70,000 offer but I cannot find the post.
Can you possibly send me a link or tell me how to do it (meaning what to write, I think it was an offer that was offered in a branch)



You should have an easier time then.

If approved you should get the bonus based on my experience.

You can use projected income.
Or just write nothing and explain to recon.


@sam gucci:

@Ari G:

@Ari L:

In my experience (and others on DDF) the UR cards don’t have a “time limit.” If you are approved you’ll get the bonus.

Same day is fine.
MBM just helps with instant approval.

You can’t match to 70K anymore.

dans fan

Does it help to shut a c.c. I’m not using to free up credit?


@dans fan:
No. You should use that as leverage to get approved if needed.


dan if im a partner with someone in a company can we both use the same ein number and get two diffrent cards





Is the Ink Business Bold the same as the Plus?

sam gucci

A little off topic, but if I got the bonus delta skymiles from the recent offer deposited into my miles account can I already close the amex credit card without losing the miles?