We just got back from spending the last couple weeks in Israel and am catching up what I’ve missed in the airline miles and credit card world…
United launched their new business class, Polaris, in December 2016. While their 777-300 aircraft were delivered with the new seating, other aircraft are slowly being retrofitted with Polaris seating that offers direct aisle access from every seat.
Confusingly, United calls all international business class Polaris, but only the planes that offer direct aisle access from every seat offer a true Polaris configuration.
777-300 seating map:
Jan Brown was one of the flight attendants who survived the 1989 crash of United flight 232. FAA guidance at the time was to put lap children on the floor and that’s what she told passengers on the flight to do. A parent of a lap child who died on that flight screamed at Jan, “You told me to put my son on the floor, I did, and he’s gone”. Everyone else in the area of the infant survived besides for the lap child. Jan has lobbied for mandatory carseat rules ever since that flight.
We always travel with carseats and purchase a seat for our infants. Aside from the safety aspect, infants in a carseat are more likely to sleep on a plane, which means that parents and surrounding passengers can also sleep better.
The FAA doesn’t require a seat for children under 2, however, “The FAA strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS or device for the duration of your flight. It’s the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination…The safest place for your child on an airplane is in a government-approved child safety restraint system or device, not on your lap. Your arms aren’t capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.”
Their analysis showed that requiring tickets for children under 2 would mean more people would drive, which is a statistically more dangerous way to travel. But they still strongly recommend using a carseat.
Unfortunately it’s been getting increasingly more difficult to travel with a carseat. Airlines are installing airbag seatbelts in extra legroom seats and in business class that are often incompatible with carseats. Airbag seatbelts forced us out of JetBlue extra legroom seats earlier this year due to having an infant carseat.
The FAA announced in 2015 that carseats are not allowed in oblique seats. These are defined as seats that are angled more than 18 degrees from the aircraft centerline. There’s no particular reason for the ban, but the FAA has never gotten around to testing carseats on angled seats.
Airlines like Air Canada and Delta ban carseats in all direct-aisle access business class seats.
But I wondered, what is the story with United’s Polaris class?
Half the seats are angled, but half of them face straight forward.
United.com says that carseats are not allowed in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft. Does that mean that business class is OK?
I reached out to United on Twitter and at first they said that you can’t have carseats in business class:
I asked for more details and the next rep said that you can have them in the straight froward facing seats:
I wrote to customer service and they also confirmed that carseats were good to go in Polaris:
I found a United flight attendant who was willing to dig deeper though, and he sent me this information from the in-flight manual:
The forward most cabin on the 767-300 and 777-200 referenced there are first class, but as there is no first class on the 777-300, it must be referring to Polaris business class. United blames the restriction on the oblique seats, but only half of the seats in Polaris business are actually oblique.
At that point we filed a complaint to the DoT as United appears to be violating the FAA policy that requires the use of carseats unless it’s in an exit row or oblique seat.
United responded with a bogus answer that carseats are banned in the straight forward Polaris seats as all Polaris seats are aisle seats and the FAA bans carseats from aisle seats. I responded yesterday how that is nonsense as the FAA only bans carseats from being placed in seats that will block others from evacuating. Thanks to direct aisle access from all Polaris seats, the carseat won’t block anyone. I haven’t yet received a response.
So what actually happened on our flight?
We flew from Newark to Tel Aviv in seats 15A/D/G and 17D/G. Rafi sat in the window seat in 15A and I sat next to Talia in 15D/G. Mimi sat next to Maya in 17D/G. I redeemed 750K United miles for the 5 round-trip business saver awards.
We had Maya in a Chicco Keyfit 30 while we gate checked the UppaBaby Vista that pushed the carseat to the plane.
Carseat manufacturers advise to avoid checking carseats at the ticket counter, so we also brought 2 GoGoBabyz Travelmates, which we use to make it easy to push an Evenflo Maestro travel carseat for Rafi and Talia which we gate check to have at the destination. Gate checked items also rarely get lost and we have the ability to push them through the airport if they get tired.
The flight attendants didn’t say anything about the infant carseat on our outbound flight.
We flew back from Tel Aviv to Newark in seats 9 A/D/G and 11 D/G. During boarding, Maya had finally fallen asleep in Mimi’s arms and was transferred to her carseat for take off. Upon seeing Maya in her carseat, the purser informed Mimi that babies must be held during take off and landing and can only be in a FAA approved child restraint in between. She then showed us the manual and said that this was not up for debate and we must comply. At first I asked if she was interpreting it right, perhaps it only meant to ban carseats in the Polaris seats that are angled outwards and not straight forward?
Angled Polaris seat:
Straight forward Polaris seat:
She argued that all of the seats are angled more than 18 degrees in lie-flat position. The rule isn’t referring to that and I pointed out that other aircraft, like the 787-8, have lie-flat seats and no such restrictions. I also pulled out my screenshots where United indicated carseats were allowed in our particular seats and she said she would talk to the captain. Maya was sound asleep in her carseat and the purser didn’t come back before takeoff, so we left her in the carseat where she slept for the next 7 hours!
The purser came back afterward and told us the captain said we could use the carseat for the flight, but we would have to hold her for landing. I asked the purser if she was familiar with the United flight 232 crash in Sioux City and she said of course, that was Jan Brown. She became a lot more sympathetic after that and we chatted about carseats and FAA rules and she agreed that the manual appeared contradictory, so she sent my screenshots in an email to United operation headquarters. She seemed pretty convinced that they would get back to her during the flight, but I said I doubt anything that bureaucratic will be solved anytime soon.
That was the last that we were bothered about the carseat. She agreed that it didn’t make any sense to have to hold an infant in a straight forward seat. She acknowledged that I had done my homework and that the policy simply didn’t make any sense. I was just impressed that logic prevailed.
I thought that Polaris is one of the best business class seating configurations out there. Solo travelers can pick a private window seats, couples can pick 2 seats together, etc. I hate the fact that United is making up rules to restrict carseats though. They do have bassinets, but that’s not nearly as safe as a carseat when there is turbulence and it can’t be used for takeoff and landing. With United installing Polaris seats on more aircraft, I sure hope they will reconsider this policy.
I reached out to Jan Brown herself to see if she would be interested in advocating for a policy change, but sadly she is too sick to do so right now.
In the meantime, I’ll likely select planes that have the old business class (including the afternoon United flight from Newark-Tel Aviv on the pre-merger Continental 777-200) when flying with a carseat to avoid these issues.
Share your experiences with carseats in business class or extra legroom seats in the comments below.
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89 Comments On "United Agents Have No Clue If Carseats Are Allowed In Polaris Class, Here’s What We Learned On Our Flight From Tel Aviv To Newark"
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Dan A+ on your homework.
Well done.
Thanks 🙂
Nice to know. Although I’m certain 95% of us readers won’t ever book first or business class thoug unless they’re deeply discounted or as part of a miles card, come on man, we’re looking for deals! Economy class for the rest of us. Lol shabbat shalom
Just need to earn enough miles to fly business class. It’s easier than you think 🙂
Tell us the secret;)
I’d suggest starting with forums.dansdeals.com.
Lots of other folks there manufacture 7 figures of miles annually.
Indeed, the problem for most of us is availability.
As if anyone with enough miles could book 5 saver J seats on UA 84/91 😉
A connection won’t kill you either. Stopovers can be fun as well.
Exactly. The rest of us folks can now go think about something this unattainable to 99% of the population
Go book a Plan B ticket.
Or book a connecting flight.
Or look for availability to open:
https://www.dansdeals.com/?s=rare+united
Exactly, @Dan, how did you find saver award space on that route, I have the United Club card and it’s still never ever open on saver?
And then you need to find availability
What about LY’s policy on the 787 J?
Btw thank you for these informative well researched posts.
I reached out to El Al via email, Facebook, and Twitter and got no response. I called and the agent had no clue. Typical El Al I guess.
My understanding is that El Al 787 business class seats have airbag seatbelts, which would make them very difficult if not impossible to use with carseats. But I don’t know their official policy. If anyone has flown it please post a comment.
Hey Dan – we’ll be flying LH-451 LAX-FRA on a 747-8 in business. We were planning to use a car seat but I’m seeing those seats are slightly angled. Do you have any idea if they are angled 18degree+
I haven’t done research into that seat, but a quick glance seems to indicate that it will be fine.
Have you tried writing to them to ask?
Sounds like that’ll be my next step.
Hi Dan, welcome back! Fascinating article.
Not sure if you’ll be writing up a full trip report at some point, but was wondering if you found the Polaris in any way superior to the regular BF United seats, i.e. the ones on the afternoon flights to TLV?
Also, I know you were working on planning your itinerary, was there any activity/place you went to that might be a little off the beaten track but is a can’t miss, Ill be going in a couple weeks. Thanks!
The Polaris seats will be better for most people as they are a lot more private and offer direct aisle access.
We didn’t do anything too crazy, we were just trying to adjust to traveling with 3 kids, not easy! But there are lots of good ideas in this post and the comments:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/israel/perfect-israel-itinerary-advice-activities-first-trip/
Thanks Dan for being an advocate for all of us to make flying easier, and by helping us achieve those tickets.
🙂
Thanks so much for this post Dan. I worry that the confusion surrounding infant safety and the use of car seats on airplanes could be a recipe for another tragedy.
I agree. It’s gotten very ridiculous of late.
Excellent post. Had this issue on a Delta flight even though I had reached out prior to flight and obviously they knew the age of child booked into the seat. Would never fly with my children unrestrained. A conversation with a veteran flight attendant on my honeymoon about how common sudden turbulence issues are guaranteed that.
Yup, but at least Delta makes it clear on their site that you can’t bring carseats into international business class.
I think the policy is ridiculous, but it has more standing and is more clear than United.
But yes, all passengers on a plane should have a seatbelt.
How do u find 5 saver available. Did u do plan b ?
Plan C 😉
Considering plan c… any details?
You would have to get me pretty drunk to talk about Plans C, D or E 😀
what is your preferred drink ?
Depends on his mood- if the stewardess pisses him off, a tall glass of Dalwhinnie. If the captain comes out to shake hands, a mojito…and if all else matters, a damn cold beer.
So if no seminars, maybe we could arrange “ah farbrengen”. Hopefully we’ll be able to get you pretty drunk
Probably has to do with being a GS!
The only question I have to you Dan is how the hack did you find 5 seats with miles
How do u find 5 saver available. Did u do plan b ?
I flew with my baby in January on Virgin Atlantic from JFK to LHR. The flight was completely empty. The flight attendants allowed us to bring our carseat on board even though we hadn’t purchased a ticket for the baby. However, the flight attendant decided that only forward facing carseats are allowed. Since its an infant car seat, it can’t buckle in forward facing and he made us stow it in the overhead compartment. Needless to say baby didn’t sleep very well. On the way back we flew Air France from CDG to JFK and had purchased him a seat. We didn’t ask questions, just buckled it in ourselves. No one bothered us. After our trip we complained to VA. After much back and forth the customer rep basically said we were right but she wouldn’t admit that the FA was wrong. We came to the conclusion that no one really knows policy on car seats and they just make it up on a whim.
Next time ask the flight attendant for documentation that says they only allow forward facing carseats. Or ask to speak to the purser or captain.
If you have enough miles you can book nonsaver fares. Or if you MS on cards with points that can be used like cash (AMEX, Barclays, etc) then there doesn’t need to be any “availability.”
The safety of oblique seats, even for adult occupants, is a complicated issue. There would be significant twisting of the head and torso in the event of a frontal impact, which would not be present in forward, rear, or side-facing seats. The inflatable lap belt, while improving restraint, actually can add to the torsion effect. Witness the difficulties Virgin Australia had with getting its super diamond seats approved.
See:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-09-25/pdf/2014-22781.pdf
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/09/25/2014-22781/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-300er-single-occupant-oblique-side-facing-seats-with-inflatable
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2015/07/16/virgin-australias-business-seat-delay-due-to-airbag-design/
I’m not saying that they should or shouldn’t go in those seats, just that the FAA ought to test them already.
However half of United’s Polaris seats are not oblique, so my primary concern is with these.
I don’t think it’s right to post about an impossible award redemption making it like it’s attainable. You have your secret ways, but others do not. Your readers would never be able to book this as you did. Telling people to find flights with layovers is not a fair response, nor is plan B.
Impossible, eh?
https://www.dansdeals.com/?s=rare+united
Never mind using Sapphire or AMEX Plat points for it…or a standard redemption.
You didn’t post about amex or sapphire points which would still be a lot more, and your “rare award finds” are so very rare and never 5 tickets on the same flight especially not around a holiday like shavuos. You know very well that whatever you did for this flight would not have been able to be replicated by others. Not here to argue, just want you to see it from your readers perspective.
Nonstops from NYC-TLV in business can be had from $3,600, which is 180K-240K Hybrid points.
Did you read the rare posts? Had plenty of flights with 9+ saver seats.
You’re kvetching that I got it around Shavuos? Grow up. That wasn’t at all the point of this post, but to say it’s not attainable ever is laughable.
Not kvetching that you got anything. Glad you were able to get something so great. In fairness I just think it’s important to note it was not something anyone else would have been able to get. It was not the point of the post, yet you included it, and it got many people’s attention for good reason. You can make other comments to make my point seem silly all you want, my opinion still stands, and I feel I’m being respectful about it. Not sure how respectful I feel your defensive response was though. Have a good shabbos.
trying to sound so professional, but you dont make any sense, dan showed you 2 ways how “everyone” can book 5 tickets, who cares if he did it his secret ways, its not like its not possible for us
Obviously you dont understand the conversation. 99.9% of the population cannot book 5 saver ewr-tlv J tickets the way Dan did. The post is a little disingenuous because if Dan used one of those 2 ways why didn’t he mention it in the post.
How in the world would that make this post disingenuous?!?
The headline is not “CLICK HERE FOR HOW TO BOOK SAVER AWARDS TO TLV.” If you want to read clickbait titles there are plenty of blogs that indulge in that every day.
How is my method of booking relevant to the point of this post at all? It is absolutely possible to book these awards via several methods as I said above, but that’s all completely secondary to what the point of this post is.
What was the point of mentioning that they were saver tix then? Most people reading the post are intrested at how you flew. The car seat part is secondary.
Did you read the title of this post?
This was not labeled as giving away saver award booking secrets or even as a trip report. I’d start with Plan B and work from there if you want to dig deeper, but that isn’t the point of this post. It was mentioned in passing only to avoid having 20 comments asking how I booked 5 business class tickets.
Clearly with some people tough I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t. Calling the post disingenuous is beyond ridiculous IMHO.
After reading my comments again, I agree that using the word disingenuous for the post as a whole is a bit much. But I still stand by my point that writing as you say in passing about 5 saver J tickets as just ho hum, another day at the office type of thing, makes it seem as if we, your readers are just a bunch of noobs.
Just curious as to why you can’t actually answer the question and do tell people how you were able to score 5 Saver Award seats. It’s not like they’re going to take it away from you….
I have lots of strategies that I use but only talked about in seminars.
I stopped giving the seminars when other bloggers started attending them, posting my strategies as their own, and killing them as they were too fragile for mass consumption.
I attended 2 seminars (CH & Jlem) and do not recall any tips beyond Plan B on United Saver space.
what the heck is plan b??????!!!!!!!
Unimpressed that you couldn’t try out Elal
(I know you tried, but someone like YOU should have found a way)
I tried much harder than I should have given that their 787s have airbags that very likely wouldn’t work with a carseat.
“I was just impressed that logic prevailed.”
…and I, for one, am shocked that logic prevailed…
True story.
I’ve had a similar experience in the old business class, with crew not knowing how many extra oxygen masks are really available on the 4 seats of the 2-4-2 configuration!
We were 2 adults + 2 lap twins, and different people (e.g. check-in, gate, purser) said different things about what we can or can’t do.
Eventually, after we boarded the plain, the purser + ground technician came in with manuals, and it took them about 15 minutes to figure out the oxygen masks situation. FYI, the 4 seats had only 1 extra mask, so we couldn’t sit there with 2 lap children, even though we’ve made sure that’s possible with CS before we booked it.
The purser asked for volunteers to switch with one of us, and after no one stepped in, she asked a near-by passenger to switch with us. He didn’t have much choice, but both him and us got compensation vouchers from UA on this ordeal, so that was handled OK.
Shortly after we had something like that in eco+ on 773, and again the purser and some ground technician took some 10 minutes to find the right passage on the manual for that.
“I asked the purser if she was familiar with the United flight 232 crash”
Yikes. I’d be afraid to bring up any talk of crashes while in-flight, lest the FA misjudge your comment as a threat. Next thing you know, the flight gets diverted and you end up in handcuffs.
I didn’t say United flight 93…
I’d write to united to thank them for a courteus flight attendant who was willing to talk. Most flight attendants feel like they are the rulers oof the sky and if you dare question their orders, they take it as you are disobeying them and we all know what can happen next. United gets so much slack for every mess up by their FA, they should be commended when they are nice and humble enough to accept that maybe the passenger has a point to make.
She’ll probably get in trouble for not following protocol.
you need to update the business unlimited card
Dan, Global Service or United 1k status wouldn’t give better availability for busness reward seats?
Platinum and above can book IN class as a saver award.
Global Services can book R class as a saver award.
You can search those on expert mode, but those are tough on the TLV route as well.
And they will open a saver seat for a companion on a paid business ticket.
is there any way possible to upgrade to premium economy on Elal from a paid economy ticket?using matmid points
Did you have the older kids sit in car seats or did you check the car seats at the gate? It was not clear if you checked both the travelmate and the evenflo or just the travelmate. Also, if you checked the carseats, how old were your kids before you stopped using carseats on the plane. Finally, how do you manage hauling 3 carseats through the airport and security? Thank you!
The older kids sat in the airplane seats.
We kept them in carseats until they were about 4.
At this point the older kids can pull their own carseat.
Is a TR coming soon?
So that people can call that disingenuous too?
I enjoy your TR’s. Just skip the flight parts. 🙂
Gotta commend the FA here. Most of them are too stuck up to even begin a conversation with, its usually their way or the runway. I always had great experiences with the crew on the EWR-TLV route.
global service members can get saver seats forced open for them !!
Only if there is R class space, which there almost never is to TLV.
Within 72hours of flight GS can have a plan B seat cleared!
Dan, Since this post is almost a year old. I am wondering if you have travelled with a carseat on polaris business recently. If yes, were you allowed to use the car seat on the new polaris business straight forward facing seat. Just wondering if anything changed.
Nothing has changed unfortunately.
For what it’s worth, United’s website says, “Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted… in United Polaris business class on 767, 777, or 787 aircraft.”
So, it appears that the official rule is that they are not allowed at all in this cabin, regardless of whether or not the individual seat is forward-facing. Whether or not that makes sense is, of course, another question. It’s possible that the reason for this might not be only the angled seats, but also airbags in the seat belts. My understanding is that these are generally incompatible with the use of a child restraint system.
United doesn’t not have airbag seatbelts in Polaris.
Hi! I am supposed to be flying on Polaris in a forward facing (not oblique) seat with my 5 month old in his carseat next to me next week. We are doing the EWR to Tel Aviv route. I am getting the runaround and multiple different answers from United about whether his carseat is allowed. Do you know if your experience still holds true about bringing the carseat on board? Thank you!
We had no problems this year.
Great research and post, thank you so much! What I now didn’t understand though: does the car seat need to be installed forward facing or as a reboarder backwards in the Polaris business seats that are straight facing forward? Thanks
Either.
How can I find out if AA will let me take a carseat (doona) on economy as I bought an extra seat
Hi Dan,
I’m flying United Polaris EWR – LHR with an infant, would united let me use a car seat? Should i rather try for a bassinet?