Table of Contents
Background and a DansDeals special investigation
On Sunday, I read about an incident on American flight 4447 on the DansDeals Forums that seemed too strange to be true. A veteran poster alleged that his brother was kicked off of an American Airlines flight from Cleveland due to being visibly Jewish.
People often send me stories to write about and I’ve reported on many over the years, though I don’t cover the majority of them. However, this one seemed like it was worth investigating.
Over the past 2 days I’ve spoken with 2 passengers who were removed from the flight, Reuven (Reuvi) Scheinerman and Yehudah Roffman. Reuvi is a minor, so I also spoke with Reuvi’s father Motti.
Were you on AA flight 4447 on 5/5? Please email Dan@DansDeals.com to share what you saw.
Usually, I stick to stories that have video or at least audio evidence, as otherwise it is only a “he said, she said” situation. In this case, the 2 yeshiva students only had kosher flip phones (non-smartphones with only calling and SMS capabilities, which is very common among yeshiva students), so this story is based on their allegations and what Reuvi discussed with his father that evening. Despite the lack of video, I found their testimonies to be credible and compelling.
Reuvi Scheinerman is removed from American flight 4447
On Sunday, May 5th, 17 year old Reuvi Scheinerman was flying back to his yeshiva in Connecticut after Pesach break. There are no nonstop flights between Cleveland and Hartford, so his father booked him on an American flight via Washington DC’s Reagan National Airport.
Cleveland’s TSA lines can run very long these days, especially if you don’t have PreCheck and CLEAR. Reuvi doesn’t drive and has no state ID, which isn’t required if you’re under 18 years old. But that also means he can’t get PreCheck or CLEAR.
American offers unaccompanied minor services for 15-17 year olds, but doesn’t require it. Reuvi is in 11th grade and has flown on his own since 9th grade without incident. This very shy boy was dressed in the yeshiva uniform: a white dress shirt, black pants, suit jacket, and a black fedora. He had the yeshiva-required kosher flip phone, without the ability to record what happened.
He was thankful to make it through security and board the plane just a few minutes before boarding was scheduled to end for AA flight 4447, an Embraer E175 operated by Republic Airways for American Airlines. He stopped to help a thankful passenger put their bag in the overhead compartment and then went straight to his window seat in 23A, the very last row of the plane. He took his seat and was happy to see that 23B was empty as boarding concluded.
That joy would be short-lived. The AA gate agent came over to him, tapped on his shoulder, and told him to grab his carry-on bag and follow him off the plane. The shy boy complied without making a scene, as his father always told him how important it is for Jews to make a Kiddush Hashem. When he was back at the gate he was told to wait while the gate agent closed the doors and sent the flight off. He asked what happened, to which the gate agent replied that he should know what he did wrong. But he had no clue.
Back at the gate he met 21 year old Yehudah Roffman for the first time, who had also been ordered off of the flight.
Yehudah Roffman is removed from American flight 4447
Yehudah is also a yeshiva student and was dressed in the same standard yeshiva uniform: black pants, suit jacket, and a black fedora. He was returning to NYC after spending Pesech break in Cleveland and also had the kosher flip phone instead of a modern smartphone.
Reuvi lives in an older Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in the city of Cleveland Heights, while Yehudah lives in a newer Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in the city of University Heights, and their paths hadn’t previously crossed.
Yehudah was originally booked on American flight 4305 from Cleveland to JFK, but along with several other passengers, missed that flight due to the long security lines. He was rebooked to LaGuardia via Reagan National, departing about 90 minutes later.
Yehudah was waiting in the gate area in Cleveland for flight 4447 to Reagan National and noticed before boarding that the tail of the plane appeared to be dented. He called his mother with his concerns, and she told him to let a flight attendant know what he’d seen. When he boarded, he asked the flight attendant if they noticed the dent in the tail, and sat down in 10D, an aisle seat in the 3rd row of the Main Cabin Extra section. He still felt uneasy, so when the gate agent was onboard he went over and once again asked if they noticed the dent on the tail, and sat back down.
Having not received any validation or even response to his previous inquiries and still feeling extremely uneasy, Yehudah noticed the pilot talking to the gate agent at the front of the plane, and asked about the dented tail. The pilot told him to sit down, but Yehudah wanted reassurance that it had been noticed and inspected, so he asked again, and the pilot told him to sit down. Yehudah asked the pilot if he was listening to his concerns, and the pilot told him for a 3rd time to take his seat. After the gate agent said that federal law required that he listen to crew instructions and that he had to take his seat, Yehudah returned to his seat.
It’s unclear why his concerns were not properly addressed. Perhaps they didn’t want a situation where passengers all ask to be deboarded due to problems with the left phalange? The plane’s tail number is N123HQ and it appears to have operated many flights successfully since AA4447.
5 mintues later, the gate agent went to 10D and told Yehudah to take his carry-ons and leave the plane.
An elderly couple that also missed their flight to JFK and had been rebooked with Yehudah to LaGuardia via Reagan National expressed their surprise as Yehudah was led off the plane.
The crew then pointed out Reuvi in the back and the gate agent walked 13 rows back and told 17 year old Reuvi that he was being ordered to leave the flight as well, despite having zero interaction with Yehudah or any cabin crew.
There were no other visibly religious Jews on the flight.
Questions loomed as to why Reuvi was removed
Back at the podium, Reuvi and Yehudah met each other for the first time. The gate agent sent the plane off just 6 minutes past its scheduled departure time, and it arrived on time into Reagan National.
The gate agent addressed both of them and said, “you know what you did.” The agent then told them that they would be blacklisted from American Airlines, and should find another airline to take them to NYC.
Yehudah never did receive an explanation for what he described was a dent on the plane’s tail. In an era of serious concerns about the safety of planes, that seems quite unfair.
When Reuvi asked the gate agent why he was removed, the response was to please wait while the gate agent figured things out.
Reuvi then gathered to courage to ask point-blank, “Is this anti-Semitism? Why was I removed from this flight?”
The gate agent responded that the pilot asked that he be removed. Reuvi asked for the pilot’s name, but the gate agent wouldn’t tell him that information.
When he asked again what he did wrong, the gate agent said they didn’t know, but when the pilot says he doesn’t want you on his flight, the gate agent has to listen.
While Reuvi is a minor, at no point did American contact Reuvi’s parents to let them know that they had removed him from the flight.
At this point, the gate agent became more compassionate and said they wouldn’t be blacklisted and they were able to be rebooked on American the following day.
Finding another way to Connecticut and New York
Yehudah had no interest in stepping foot onto another American plane, and said he would rent a car. He also felt bad, and offered to drive Reuvi to his Yeshiva in Connecticut and get him there on time for classes to begin Monday morning.
Reuvi called his parents and related that he had been kicked off the flight, despite doing nothing wrong. They said they would pick him up from the airport, but he told them about Yehudah Roffman’s offer. Reuvi’s mother works as a secretary at a religious school in Cleveland that the Roffman children went to and was familiar with the family, so his parents agreed to this arrangement. That kind of kindness and trust is common in the world of religious Jews.
They took the shuttle to the rental car facility, Yehudah rented a car, and they drove through the night to Reuvi’s yeshiva in Connecticut, arriving at 6am, before Yehudah drove to his yeshiva in Far Rockaway, NY.
Ejecting a minor without informing the parents
I also spoke with Reuvi’s father, Motti Scheinerman.
He was shocked at the open anti-Semitism of his son being thrown off the flight, despite doing nothing wrong or even being accused of anything he specifically did that was wrong.
He was even more shocked that American didn’t even think to let the parents of a minor know that they were removing him off of the last flight of the day. Is that really airline protocol?
Collective punishment: Lufthansa Déjà vu
This is a story that’s eerily reminiscent of the infamous May 2022 Lufthansa flight, when all visibly religious Jews on that flight were denied boarding their connecting flight because of a couple Jews on the originating flight failing to comply with mask requirements.
A Lufthansa supervisor in Frankfurt was caught on camera admitting that “Jewish people who were the mess, who made the problems, and everyone had to pay for a couple.”
The airline wound up settling the case for nearly $3 million to avoid having it go to court.
Apparently, American Airlines has a cabin crew that also practices collective punishment against visibly religious Jews.
It should have been obvious that despite their similar garb, there was zero interaction between Reuvi and Yehudah. Yehudah boarded early while Reuvi boarded just before boarding was ending. They were seated 13 rows apart and their tickets had no connection to one another. They lived in different cities and were strangers to one another. There should have been no reason to confuse the 2 or lump them together. And yet, the pilot on flight 4447 did exactly that in tossing them off the flight, seemingly because they both looked visibly Jewish.
Scary times for visibly religious Jews
Is this what we have come to in 2024?
Do we need to start flying with body cams? I don’t think we’re there yet, but at the very least, if you do have a smartphone, you should start recording at the first hint of something happening. If you feel uncomfortable holding it up to someone’s face, you can just have it record while in your hand to pick up audio and some video. If you are forced to delete pictures or video, you can typically recover it from your phone’s trash folder.
My brother is a first year Columbia Law Student, where there have been virulently anti-Semitic and dangerous protests. He remains at home, where he has finished this year’s studies remotely and is taking finals remotely, as is required by the school.
There was a rise in anti-Semitism before October 7th, but the most deadly day for Jews since the Holocaust seems to have awoken a whole new level of hatred against Jews.
It is wrong and deeply concerning that today one could be targeted or mistreated just for being visibly Jewish.
These are highly uncomfortable and scary times indeed for visibly religious Jews.
DansDeals reached out to American Airlines yesterday for comment, and while we accepted an off the record phone call from the airline’s media team, we haven’t received an official statement about this incident. This post will be updated if we receive an official statement from the airline.
Were you on AA flight 4447? Please email Dan@DansDeals.com to share what you saw.
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210 Comments On "OUTRAGEOUS: American Airlines Ejects 17 Year Old Orthodox Jew From Flight Due To The Actions Of An Unrelated Orthodox Jewish Passenger"
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What a disgrace that the airline decided to treat a passenger as a problem passenger for no reason other than having attire seen as being of a sort of similar nature to another passenger who was initially flagged down by the airline as a problem passenger. Such discrimination should have no place in the world.
Sick x2!
Is there another side to the story ? seems very outrageous.
I know them personally. This is the exact story. And it is indeed outrageous!
Do you any reason not to trust the story?
Our days are numbered in the US
No. For the rest of our lives, there will always be people who stand up for a diverse and inclusive US opposed to exclusionary hate. The US is not on course to end up as a “white Christian nationalist” country despite what a too large part of the so-called MAGA crowd wants.
They said the same thing about Germany.
Be careful using the term “white Christian nationalists” in an ironic meaning way. Not everyone is familiar with those groups and their terminology. Most on here may know you are talking about White nationalist-supremacist groups but some might not.
For anyone unfamiliar, groups that don’t like minorities sometimes refer to themselves as “white nationalists” or” white christian nationalists” or whatever.
Biden just blocked arms to Israel, while Kamala has continued to push for a ceasefire and rebuke Israel. Making this a Trump bashing post looks bad on you.
Biden will lose the upcoming November election even after and probably because the Biden Administration has provided Israel with the most extensive military aid in the last 12 months than any previous US Administration has ever provided Israel in any 4 year period. The vast majority of 18-35 year old Americans are highly critical of Netanyahu’s war on Gaza, and that is going to tap out the ability of Biden to win re-election in November.
The dog and pony show of holding back an ammunition shipment of one sort while sending Israel tons of other weapons is just a dog and pony show for Biden to try to signal to his anti-war critics that he isn’t entirely ignoring them.
I commend you for not shouting that Biden will win every state in the election. Many analysts indeed say that the pandemic which may have resulted in Trumps 2020 loss, the Israel war will result in Bidens 2024 loss. The growing number of politicians from the Democratic Party which share extreme views on their hatred of Israel is growing, and growing faster than on the Republican side of the aisle. Simply look at the next generation of these young anti Israel protesters, do you really believe that they are voting Republican? Ultimately, my question remains why you made this into a Trump issue, and why you think we have a guarantee of safely remaining in the US for decades to come. All it takes is one Kamala or one AOC to become president, and they will find something in the constitution to make life impossible for Jews in the US.
never found kamala to be remotely anti jewish in any way. you did?
Kamala Harris is is married to a Jewish American guy whom she loves. The idea of her being anti-Jewish only comes from radicals who believe in “my way or (be political roadkill on) the highway”. And I say that as someone who has never been a fan of her selection as Vice-President. I thinks she lacks administrative competence, but she’s no anti-Jewish bigot.
She does what she needs to in order to get the votes and likes. Definitely not a huge supporter for the Jews.
“Definitely” – Proof?
Jewish guy whom she loves? He and his children do not want to be considered Jewish. I wouldn’t even comment on Kamala’s being not anti Jewish. Her actions speak by itself
Are you their spokesperson, or did you get a degree in telepathy from Trump University? If neither, then it’s safe to conclude that your characterization of their relationship with faith and religious identity is no less questionable than it already was.
@Donald (are you real)
I’m guessing you don’t know Kamala Harris’ loving husband Doug Emhoff is a proud Jew?
AOC like Chuck Schumer represent Jewish voters and donors.
It is hypothetical either would make it to POTUS, but more doubtful any criticism of current Israeli government (aligning with protest within Israel) would translate to anti-Jewish policies within the USA.
I agree, shame on GUwonder for making this a trump bashing post.
Nothing to say about the shame of the Biden Admin bashing going on here? The Biden-Harris Admin have set themselves on course for near certain electoral college defeat in November because of and even after providing Israel unprecedented military, intelligence, financial, diplomatic and moral support in the last several months. Israel has had no greater ally during any war in its history than it has with the Biden-Harris Administration during this war.
False. There is a single unconfirmed report that a single arms shipment was delayed, with no reason given in the (Axios) article. If you wish to play politics, consider the Republican-led House that blocked for months all bills (supported by the Biden Administration) to provide support to Israel and our ally Ukraine, reportedly at the direction of former president Trump. That’s the reality, and it has nothing to do with the apparent anti-Semitism of this American Airlines crew.
While meanwhile proposing bills to provide support to Israel _without_ tying it to aid to Ukraine. Funny you wouldn’t mention that point. A deliberate lie, or simply being (conveniently) uninformed?
Kind of confirmed verbally by the president in an interview….
Ok this needs to be addressed.
When the left guy (and those using his words to respond to him) here says “Christian white nationalists” in quotes he means white supremacist groups.
When right people say “social justice warriors” they mean antisemitic leftists.
It is sarcasm. Those groups refer to themselves in those terms instead of what they are. So the commenters are being sarcastic using the false term they use for themselves in quotes. It’s said with an eye roll. No one thinks these loons are either patriots nor helping society with any kind of good or justice. They are just two extremes. And extremes always turn on God and Good.
It’s because they are ideologies/false gods.
Yeah, it’s not the white Christian nationalists who are making this country inhospitable to us.
They will always be a minority of nut jobs.
It’s the side that picks on Jews in the name of social justice that concerns us
“White Christian nationalists” are the majority of the nut jobs in the country that threaten the country’s inclusive polity and diversity. Remember the famous poem from Niemoller? The so-called “social justice warriors” and “darker skinned minorities” are not going to be the only or final targets of the “white Christian nationalists”.
You are either very misinformed or blinded by your hate. The “DEI” “don’t hurt my feelings” “I get to chose my gender” “We need equality” crap is what’s killing this country and that’s being driven by minorities who are being driven and manipulated by a few on the left.
G-d forbid someone tells them to work hard, take responsibility for their actions and invest in the family unit so that they too could down the line be successful… Oh no that would be Racist! Don’t tell me I need to WORK!
100%
Hmm, as a white Christian, you just deflated all the outrage about this incident that just happened on AA.
William, I am so so sorry. He was talking about white supremacists. But I can see how it would still hit wrong. Besides that, Most Jews wouldn’t agree. I’m Jewish and honestly when I read that I almost wanted to clarify in case a person like you would see it. And I’m sorry. Really. But in any case, he was referring to who you’d call white supremacists, like the ” America was meant for white people crowd” which is leaps and bounds smaller than the antisemitic leftists.
William this us not what was meant. So sorry for what sounds insulting to normal kind white Christians. He used in quotes because he was referring to like kkk types. Sadly they are a problem too. But for sure it wasn’t referring to white Christians in are in general who are supportive of Israel. And everyone is disagreeing with him anyway. Whatever the politics, his choice of words was poor.
For the record, before you offend kind innocent people, by “white Christian nationalists” they are referring to white supremacists. Sheesh.
I know you’re being sarcastic saying “white Christian nationalists” instead of white supremacists because that’s what they call themselves but it may be taken at face value or misconstrued because this is a long thread. We don’t want to offend regular white Christian patriotic people. Just maybe be careful. I know no one meant any harm just saying though.
They are called progressives which include the Muslim faction. If the radical muslims can control the progressive socialists they can eventually get what they want. Yuval Harari calls humans useless idiots.. and they are. At a protest scream to the river to the sea and the sheep will copy you, scream hummus and techina and they do the same. Useless idiots!
Foolish comment. The problem is emphatically NOT with the MAGA crowd.
100% agree.
“Foolish comment. The problem is emphatically NOT with the MAGA crowd.”
It seems to be the crazies on the left who are the biggest issue right now
The guys who scream at me from their car when I walk down the street aren’t white supremacist . I could go on and on proving that the real threat is from the left. However, it isn’t something that needs to be proved it is quite obvious, clear and open (just look at the protests and try to figure out who they are and who is backing them) Anybody who cannot understand this has serious issues. The answer is to trust in Hashem and not to worry so much and write silly posts about that we don’t have too much hope.
That’s not true that’s MSNBC and CNN talking about Maga. I live among good ol boys, all maga. Most go to church. All know I’m Jewish and have no problem with me or my family. We have some amazing discussions about religion, the state of our world, cooking everything. All believe that the progressives are the problem. As I do! The Islamic radicals are the problem. Maga (Jews, Christians and anyone who believes in freedom) actually think for themselves. These progressives don’t think for themselves they just are sheep they follow Ilan Omar and her bunch of lunatics ! Biden’s been an antisemite since the 50s. He’s racist too btw. Obama is running Biden and he’s out to destroy us (Jews and America) Think, research, talk to people outside your world. Don’t just listen to the media.
“Talk to people outside your world…” says the MAGA idiot who just admitted that he hangs with 100% MAGA good ol’ boys that ALL BELIEVE (including him, of course) that the “other” is the problem, not them.
How do you not hear yourself?
Nina I appreciate your comment. I also support the Maga movement.
The problem isn’t the “white Christian nationalists,” let alone “the so-called MAGA crowd.” In case you haven’t noticed, anti-Semitism now, and for decades, has mostly been from the left.
Looks that way.
Well said. So what are we doing about it?
Get out while you can!
To where?
This is despicable and inexcusable. It’s becoming way too common nowadays unfortunately. We’re at a point where they don’t even hide their rabid anti-semitism. They both must Sue. It’s the only language these big companies know. If not for themselves, for any one of us in the future that this can happen to.
That’s so sad. Soon we are going to need our own airline. I’m sure it won’t have any great mileage program.
Elal
Too Expensive. So we need to continue supporting the Anti … Air Lines.
You can’t fly El Al between Cleveland, DC, and New York.
I had a similar thing with American Airlines 5 years Ago.
Since then I haven’t traveled with them and I’ll never travel with them.
A
This is retarded!! and i still wanna know what Yehudah Roffman did wrong?!?!?!
I agree that that what the AA employees did is despicable, but can we please not use language like “retarded”. It is incredibly offensive to people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Please try to use more appropriate language in the future, especially on a public site.
Actually, you have it backwards – retarded is offensive for people with a developmental disability. The new word is mentally challenged etc. please do you homework.
This comment reminds me of an AI chatbot
Agree with yoel
Please have Seichel!
Thank you
Excellent Friends allusion to Phoebe Buffay; Horrible example of collective punishment related to a passenger raising a safety issue.
One thing should be clarified in Dan’s article. It doesn’t seem that there was justification for removing the “offending” guy either. That itself was likely anti semitism. The fact that that then collectively punished the other totally unconnected guy just makes it much more obvious and egregious.
Same thought I had.
Agree!
The justification was not listening to orders to sit multiple times, but it’s bizarre that his concerns were never properly addressed.
Wouldn’t that then make his conduct reasonable?
Definitely would have been nice to have video of that interaction. Hopefully someone steps forward with info about witnessing him talking to the pilot. Would be curious to hear how aggressive that conversation was between the two of them.
..Because their was no orders. Why wouldn’t the gate agent know the reason they always seem to know if someone was kicked off the plane the reason why he was kicked out.
This sounds shady as hell. Who was the pilots And flight attendance ? can we look into Their social media accounts?
Fully agree. A passenger had a basic plane safety concern and so asked about it. That’s ridiculous grounds on which to deny transport to the passenger.
Agreed as well
Shame on American Airlines. That story makes me so upset.
Would be sad if this is a larger trend
My son, also a minor But old enough to fly alone, Was flying back to yeshiva last week and ran into long lines at TSA. He BH made it to the gate just 20 minutes before take off… While they were boarding
He asked the gate agent if he had time to get water And she said you have 7 minutes. He ran to get water and was back within 3 minutes. She then refused to let him board saying that as a young teenager his parents were negligent and having him arrived at the gate so late. When he pointed out that she herself said that he had 7 minutes…. And that they were still a good 20 people boarding… She said that didn’t matter and he was not going to board period.
BH she stepped away for a few minutes and someone else was at the gate allowing him to board in the end.
I feel as this this is a larger trend for the public at large (especially with my limited experience with “american” airlines). Even ordinary people, and those who don’t appear outwardly Jewish have to contend with power hungry and not so smart people nearly daily doing these ridiculous things. The outrageous part of this larger story is some other random kid is thrown off the plane as well. Well “random”. Wait until the CEO finds out about this in a few months. Kinda like the European airline where the CEO issues a statement nearly months later “apologizing”.
Seems very unfair and pilot ignoring the kids concern is a shame.
That said not sitting down after first and second time being told although petty does give the pilot grounds to say that they don’t want to fly a passenger. why the 2nd kid was deplaned is truly a mystery, one possibility is that it was a miscommunication (mixed with bias?) Ie captain says take off the kid in the white shirt and FA hears kids?
Seems wishful thinking but it would be nice if this was the case.
American should pay for their actions. If their employees felt comfortable acting this way, it is obviously an attitude that is encouraged or at the least tolerated by their company. Stand up for our rights – as a full paying customer, I deserve to be treated as such.
Demand ‘equality’ and make them pay if not. If you show that you will not stand for it – you will quickly see results.
For the point of it – anyone really upset about his should not book American Airlines in the foreseeable future, but opt for an alternative.
Yet another story reminding us of the dangers of FWO, (flying while orthodox)
It’s a travesty that “flying while orthodox” and appearing to be Jewish or Muslim based on orthodox attire increases the risk of being harassed or otherwise discriminated against by bigots and the lazy-minded ones who don’t think for themselves and end up supporting such bigotry by going along to get along with the colleagues or whomever else they consider to be close peers.
Any examples of Muslims being discriminated against on a flight?
Because that would be bad but Anti-Jewish incidences in general have been far more common.
Muslims seem to always get “randomly selected” in security lines
Any real chance to win a lawsuit without video evidence?
Yes
Based on what do you say that?
Video footage is relatively new in the world of law. I don’t know how old you are but there was a time when video recording didn’t exist altogether (if you could believe it) and there were plenty of lawsuits during that time that had to be litigated without it.
They are going to need to explain why they were deplained.
a similar anti-semetic incident happened recently on JETBLUE as well…
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=search&v=1407146530004507&external_log_id=5a08e5ac-aa15-4f3a-bdbe-ae5327184428&q=flight%20atendant%20with%20palestinian%20pin%20on%20a%20flight
Not quite similar, this is much worse.
We covered the JetBlue story here:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/flight-incident-jetblue-apologizes-changes-crewmember-pin-policy/
oops…missed that post…:)
Wow! Jet Blue style
Seems like people aggressively stick their nose in places where they don’t belong and are surprised when there are consequences. 0 sympathy for 10D. That being said removing the kid is problematic and concerning
You probably don’t read the labels of any food you eat, or look at the policy of the people you vote for… if you’re flying then it’s your absolutely your concern.
Yeah, what’s it your business if the tail of your airplane falls off. That’s the pilot’s problem.
Ok, Karen.
What is to be accomplished with this post? Without any proof to this story, why would AA even consider this case? They will just deny everything or make up an opposing narative.
Video is always helpful, but certainly not required to have an airline investigate the incident and the crew.
Well it would be nice to at least hear something from them….
What did AA say in the off-record phone call?
Are orthodox he going to have to stop flying because we’ll need to be boycotting every airline since slowly but surely they’re all behaving like despicable anti-semites? This appalling behavior against us needs to be stopped so we can fly just like everyone else does without fear of discrimination.
In agreeing to accept the off-the-record call, the content can’t be published.
Hopefully these stories raise awareness and airlines will investigate and take action against anti-Semitic employees.
Was the “off-the-record” phone call recorded for quality and training purposes? (Just teasing)
Here at DansDeals, we always use industry standard practices. 🙂
“What did AA say in the off-record phone call?”
I think you’re confused about the meaning of the phrase “off-record.”
I don’t know what I would do if I was in this situation but I would be livid! This kids obviously did not want any trouble and are shy so won’t make a scene, but I would not be so easy on them!
Also for your brother, I hope that he gets to join some class action against Columbia for the way they are making students finish their semester at home… or get refunded for the entire school year! SICKENING!
Horrible!! Wonder how the story would play out if they would have removed the only 2 black passengers?!?!
#DontFlyAmerican
Unbelievable. This should not and can not be tolerated.
I was recently on a Delta flight to Miami, and there was a orthodox Jewish family on board as well. Unfortunately their kids were not exactly the best behaved and parents didn’t seem to be too involved. I noticed many passengers not looking very impressed.
No one said anything or complained, but I myself was getting fed up, and worried about the chillul hashem it was making.
We must be careful and understand that people are watching your every move, regardless of it’s “fair” or not.
What happened to these young men is awful. I have been a nervous wreck every time flying for this reason alone. While my husband is wearing a kippah beside me we are visibly Jewish and therefore our every move is being judged as representative of the whole Jewish population. I have B”H been extra careful and attentive with my children to make sure we make a kiddush hashem and have mainly positive experiences.
I doubt this would be true if traveling today.
The tide has changed and many people value following the majority instead of being moral kind human beings.
What does your post have to do with this story?? Act like a “Bochur” and stay off the internet!
can we track this plane and get someone to take a picture of the damaged tail to add more credence to the story?
N123HQ – been flying multiple flights per day. Most likely had no dent and what the person saw was the design of the tail that allows for the elevator trim to maneuver. The captain or airline employee that heard the concern should have simply thanked him for voicing his concern for safety and explained that was he saw was in fact part of the aircraft’s design. Don’t tell the poor kid to “sit down” and ignore his concern. Not hard to be a mentch.
Correct.
Yehuda Roffman is a personal hero of mine and I would love the opportunity to meet him. Dan, if you could make that happen I would be eternally grateful.
You have too much time on your hands, consider picking up an additional chavrusa or offer to do chesed in the community….
Poshut not true. Yehuda Roffman is a light to our community. Of course I do tremendous Chesed and already have many chavrusas. Nonetheless, I would love to meet this man who has done tremendous good for our community and for Orthodox Jews across America
I was also kicked off a flight once and I’m extremely inspired by Yehuda Roffman’s bravery in speaking to the press. The trauma that he experienced is something that no one should have to go through. Thank Yehuda for all that you’ve done for Klal Yisroel. Shkoyach!
This story has to go to the mainstream media to get any accountability from AA
The part about the dent in the wing seems like the only “problem”. Maybe the pilot didn’t want to notify anyone about the dent and cancel the flight.
There’s also a problem with us. We should be demonstrating in front of American Airlines right now. But there’s no one to organize anything anymore. We are weak!!
Yes we’ll write letters and sue them and the boys will have better shoddy him with a few million dollars in their bank accounts.
But where is our outrage???
Or maybe the kid saw something that’s a non-issue. Pilots do a walk around on the ground before each flight. Missing a damaged tail is highly unlikely.
Right, but isn’t it the crew’s job to reassure him that it was looked into and determined to be a non-issue?
Yehudah should have complied with the request to be seated, but it’s shocking that his safety concerns were ignored.
It’s still a relevant concern since he didn’t know that.
If the involved airline employees were competent and took a proper guidance role, they could have addressed the issue raised by the proverbial Nervous Nelly with a physical plane safety concern without deplaning him and the unrelated 17-year-old student. It could have been a teaching moment, but instead ended up being a reactionary moment with the 17-year-old student being harassed for no reason other than the airline chose to bunch him together with the 21-year old proverbial Nervous Nelly on the basis of perceived religious identity.
Thank you for looking into this incident.
Can an airline employee prevent someone from recording on the plane? Or any other area for that matter such as the gate etc…
No reason why the young man’s concern about the dented tail couldn’t be addressed. Totally outrageous antisemitic behavior. Those involved should be publicly reprimanded. Disgusting.
Maybe we should try a petition against AA to send them a loud and clear message…
Why no FAA Complaint?
Petition does 0.
Fellow Jews…. it’s time to pack-out. We had a good 80-90 year run here, but just open your eyes and use your brains that the RS”O gave you.
איזה הוא חכם, הרואה את הנולד.
Agree and Grateful for the memories ❤️
When we accept this in a positive way it will be smooth. 🙂
There has been a Jewish population in the US from the very beginning of the foundation of the country. And the country’s run is not over anytime soon.
This isn’t an airport….no need to announce your departure.
And go where exactly? Israel you say not exactly safer for jews at the moment
Dunno about you but my family has been in the USA for 140+ years
This is upsetting on so many levels. Flight staff are just proving themselves basic bullies.
I have 3 boys flying to yeshiva this week. Sadly they will be wearing baseball caps and sport clothing with their real clothing in their luggage. Sad state of affairs and unfortunately history shows things only get worse.
Grow a pair.
Be kind and considerate toward people worried about the safety of themselves and their children to such extent that people feel like they or their children have to hide their religious identity in public. It’s a sad state of affairs and an indictment of humanity that people ever feel a need to stay below the radar with personal religious affiliation in public even while doing ordinary, lawful things in perfectly respectable and respectful ways.
If the facts recited are true — and with regard to the 17-year-old, it seems extremely likely they are true — AA employees acted irresponsibly. But, if I had to guess, it was stupidity — and not anti-semitism — that motivated their behavior. Hopefully, AA apologizes, offers the child some compensation, and reminds employees (especially the ones involved in this incident) that they have to be more careful in treating passengers as individuals.
I’m less sure about the incident involving the older student. Based on the story recited, it seems like the crew also handled his concerns very poorly. But I know there are always 2 sides to every story. I will withhold judgment.
Please explain the the other two sides and if the are creditable.
I spoke to Reuvi’s mother – she’s my cousin, and this is the exact story. Reuvi was completing clueless as to why he was singled out.
one can obtain pre check with a passport
He wasn’t flying with any ID.
Cleveland’s TSA lines can run very long these days, especially if you don’t have PreCheck and CLEAR. Reuvi doesn’t drive and has no state ID, which isn’t required if you’re under 18 years old. But that also means he can’t get PreCheck or CLEAR.
i understood that. but this seems to mean that without a state ID, he cant get pre check. although he can if he has a passport. just housekeeping
Correct. And same with Global Entry.
It’s possible for minors without currently valid ID to travel without ID and still get PreCheck even while actually under 14 years of age. If they check-in and get Precheck on their boarding pass, they can still use PreCheck if able to coattail along with an adult entitled to PreCheck screening. Doesn’t need even to be on the same PNR as the adult with whom the minor is coattailing if boat have Precheck boarding passes and the adult with PreCheck has their own ID.
FYI precheck begins at age 14
Not if the minor has no ID
You probably ought to stick to posting only stories that are video-verifiable rather than to take the C.Y.A. stories of instigating Teens as truth. I don’t blame the parents…. they want to believe the best of their children. In this case, they are being grossly misled by two youths who are trying to deflect blame for unacceptable actions while mom and dad are absent. These children should be banned from flying.
Where’s *your* video evidence?
What do you think would motivate both of them to lie in a circumstance like this? They were both inconvenienced by this situation and it was the airline which chose to lump them together for denial of transport.
I happen to know one of the boys and I will tell you that he is a trustworthy individual and wouldn’t make up lies.
Lol. No satire comments please. This is a serious story.
Wild, collective punishment of civilians really is a terrible policy all around.
sick comment. equating a war zone to this. woke as can be….likely a troll. go back to columbia u etc.
It was collective punishment if the airline chose to go after the 17-year-old for no other reason than he was seen as being of the same ethnic/religious/ethno-religious background as the passenger who raised the plane safety concerns.
These are dangerous times to be flying, period, whether you are Jewish or not. The airline employees exert ultimate authority, and sometimes without cause, take people off of flights. It isn’t just AA. Was he unfairly treated? Absolutely! Adding to that was that he is a minor. Does he need video evidence? No, but it strengthens his case. If AA was smart, they would settle this. But they most likely wont.
What about the antisemitic United pilot that was discussed on DanDeals a while ago? Is he still piloting us?
And all the cancelled TLV flights? Maybe a full boycott on UA & AA? Let’s not fly them and banned our employees as well….however they know that a large segment of us will do anything for 25 cents.
Just cancelled my AA credit card because I will no longer fly with AA
crazy times! im done with AA.
You’ll still fly with them.
At a minimum, AA should issue a public apology, and grant both of them lifetime unlimited worldwide travel.
“and grant both of them lifetime unlimited worldwide travel” and while we’re dreaming how about a 50 percent discount to all black hatters
Hopefully they will get a good lawyer.
The dent he was referring to is probably the flattening of the fuselages curvature where it meets the the horizontal stabilizer, this is common on many aircraft and helps with the structural rigidity of the stabilizers. From some angles it may be mistaken as damaged to the untrained eye. (My own assumption here)
They should need to document a reason for involuntary discharging a passenger.
You know, all those black hatters look the same!
How can a minor rent a car? I know of NO Rental car agencies that rent to under 25 , except Hertz who will rent to 21 and up for an extra hefty fee.
Something wrong with this story.
Not sure what your problem is here? Yehudah probably paid an underage fee to be able to rent a car as a 21 year old. It’s not a hefty fee.
I’ve been renting cars since I was 18 without issues.
If you are a AAA Member you can rent easily being under 21.
I had no idea – thanks for that info!
The story is accurate. I spoke with Reuvis mother.
Nonsense. From Hertz.com. Having AAA will waive the underage fee from age 20.
Renters must be at least 20 years old to rent a vehicle at most locations in the U.S. and Canada. In Michigan, New York and the province of Quebec, the minimum age to rent a vehicle is 18. In Alabama and Nebraska, the minimum age to rent a vehicle is 19
I have often seen 21-23 year olds rent cars from rental car locations across the country. Under some contract codes, no underage fee was even applicable. And for those not entitled to use contract codes waiving underage fees for young adult drivers with a credit card (or even just debit card with enough funds on it and an onward flight ticket), there have long been underage fees applicable for car rentals made by people of that age range that allow such adults to rent a car even for one-way journeys.
…. oh, the things you learn when going to colleges and universities away from home and being employed as a young adult academic or business traveler.
American is terrible. The agent checking our bag this morning was beyond rude
never understand why people label a whole airline based on the behavior of one pilot or attendant.
They must have thousands of people in their operation.
Yup. And everyone will be flying the next dans deals post on an AA price mistake.
Cuz I don’t remember her name
It’s more about how the airline deals with the incident than the bad apple.
I agree that this story is a truly outrageous. At the same time, 17 year old Reuvi was flying on his own. Note that AA unaccompanied minor policy is that “This service is optional for children age 15 – 17, but if requested, then the fee applies”. My understanding that no such service was requested and no $150+7% tax was paid. Thus, AA was at no obligation to treat this passenger under unaccompanied minor policy (and also inform parents). Thus, the paragraph above (Ejecting a minor without informing the parents) is irrelevant to this case. You want unaccompanied minor – you pay for that. My son was flying several times on his own when this age and I was fully aware that AA was at no obligation to do anything extra.
Good point
Of course they knew he was a minor because he didn’t have to show ID to board the flight (it seems he didn’t have ID) and an adult is required to have ID to fly. So since they knew he was a minor they should be obligated to at the very least inform his guardian that he was removed from the flight.
Probably same flight attendant;
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/american-airlines-flight-turns-around-2-hours-after-passenger-calls-attendant-waiter-steward-business-class-dispute-respect-common-courtesy-cincinnati-policy-policies-escorted-off-pilot-referred-cabin-crew-technical-guyanese
It’s time people start getting the ok to have smart phones. There are plenty of Kosher smart phones available in Israel and I imagine there are similar Kosher smart phones in the United States as well.
Ok, Karen.
You’re right after that there will be no more anti-Semitic hate crimes!
There certainly are Kosher Smartphones, including Kosher OS. But many yeshiva boys (and/or their yeshivas) still prefer flip phones.
Depends what the definition of kosher is.
There are many Gedolim that do not allow any smartphones.
The reason why the world is so crazy is because of social media. Smartphones are the problem not the solution.
Since when do you need a smartphone to record video?
Kosher smartphones are still plenty distracting. Smartphones were designed from the beginning to play us for fools.
There are countries/states are starting to ban smartphones for kids in schools… Chuchma BaGoyim Taamin…
It’s time the FAA made the flight crew wire up an incident report immediately when removing a person from a plane and prohibiting the crew from flying until that report is filed. It will make the crew think twice before deciding to deplane someone for something minor
You should pin this article.
Crazy
It’s crazy how we switch into robots when boarding an aircraft, regardless of your mood everyone puts up a tense smile, or else be educated by the crew. I think I’m sticking to allegiant
Before getting the tar and feathers out should we at least wait for a response from AA?
It’s the getting of the tars and feathers for the airline that help to get an airline to address the airline’s bigotry aimed at passengers flying the airline.
We all know this would go very differently if it was any other group/ethnicity/minority. And here’s why: They fight back.
If a Muslim person was wrongfully removed from a flight, and for added measure they removed another visible Muslim, would the story appear in a relatively obscure website (no offense intended to dansdeals)? The whole world would be busy with this, and the pilot would be fired and blacklisted.
We have money. We have influence. We have access… Right? WRONG. We have nothing, because the leaders of Jewish organizations who are supposed to fight for Jews have no interest in doing so.
Keep giving your money to UJA and ADL and JCRC, and all the other alphabet soup, and then complain quietly amongst eachother why nobody thinks twice about spitting Jews in the face.
And let’s stop pretending the reason we don’t make a scene is to avoid a chilul Hashem. There can be no greater chilul Hashem than when Jews get stepped on with impunity. The reason we don’t make a scene is because we’ve been trained to fear confrontation. Until we grow a collective spine and dump any “leaders” who won’t fight for us, we can expect – and deserve – stuff like this to happen.
Let’s be fair though – the more likely situation is the Reuvi was kicked off the plane by mistake. The agent confused him with Roffman. They probably were both dressed in the Yeshiva Boy uniform (White shirt, black suit, black hat). Yes, every person is a different person – but that same way you confuse other people, they may confuse yeshiva boys.
Why Roffman was to be kicked off the plane is a different story. Who knows how “aggressively” he asked why there is a dent on the plane.
If everything is anti-semitism, then nothing becomes anti semitism
No. They kicked Roffman off and then they pointed to Reuvi and kicked him off as well.
That’s absolutely outrageous!! How can they tell a minor passenger or two in this incident to get off the flight and not call their parents or tell them to leave the flight. Would they do it to a disabled person in a wheelchair or any other race or ethnicity. No, only Jewish people who have a right to be Jewish. If it was a Afro American person it would not have happened or a gay person. Only people who are Jewish. This is a disgrace to all Jewish people and the Airline. I would sue the pants off of the Airline. And never fly with them again!! Disgraceful and pathetic is what is it. Anti-Semantic is what it is. Absolutely disgusting to hear this!!
If the kind of discrimination and “over-policing” that Muslim and “brown” travelers perceived to be Muslim have experienced at airports and on planes in the US was nipped in the bud and opposed effectively by all Americans from the start, then all travelers today would be better off and less likely subjected to racism and other unlawful bigotry of the sort that hit Reuvi while traveling.
My heart goes out to him, as being hit by racist discrimination really can have a very serious impact on how a person feels about themself and their place in the world; and it will probably impact his worldview which is developing in such formative years.
I hope the lesson here is that we should stand united against racism and religious bigotry in all its forms so the airlines are more likely to get and better absorb the message that antisemitism and other forms of racism directed at travelers are not going to be allowed to go unchallenged.
It would be to the benefit of all- passengers and crew and airline- if there were simple “dashcam” style video cameras placed and running every 10 feet or so over the aisles on all aircraft. Then we would know what really happened in this and other similar cases.
There is no right to privacy on a flying tube with 100 plus other people crammed in .
Have to remember that American Airlines is based in Dallas, perhaps the friendliest city in the world when it comes to respect for Jews. Well, maybe second to Tehran.
No updates from the airline yet???
AA will pay for this pilot’s bigoted action, things will cool for a while until another bigot does something similar.
This is why we have a judicial system in the USA and, for now, it still kinda works.
What else can be done, aside from paying a penalty and AA having to do some PR repair? If there’s a repub in the white house next year, you can forget being able to force anyone to answer for anything like this, as to do so would be to commit the ultimate crime of “wokeism.”
I think American Airlines should award these 2 young fellas with 3 million dollars EACH, for their blatant anti semitism! Just like they punished both of them because they lookedJewish , they should reward both of them for being Jewish !!!! Shame on American Airlines!!!
100%! It’s a disgrace!
So what is their to do now
I’m so confused. Dent the tail? As in the tail of the plane? Like the actual horizontal or vertical stabilizer? How the hell does a passenger dent the tail of the plane? Was he outside on the tail banging it with a hammer? AA’s explanation sounds outrageous.
What they did to Reuvi absolutely appears to be blatant antisemitism. I would remove all of the other red herrings from the story:
1) The description of Yehuda Roffman’s interactions with the staff don’t sound far off from a legitimate removal. If he was repeatedly interrupting the pilot and ground crew from preparing for the flight despite multiple requests to be seated, that is legitimate grounds for removal (for him, not the unrelated kid)
2) They were under zero duty to contact the parents (they most likely don’t even have the parents’ contact info). When you send a 17 year old and decide not to purchase unaccompanied minor services, you are saying that you agree to have your child treated as an adult and manage whatever comes their way. If he had been ejected for a legitimate reason (again, he wasn’t, but let’s say he was), he has to deal with the outcome of that. If people continue to complain about “the airline didn’t do this for a 17 year old”, the airlines are just going to start requiring 17 year olds to purchase the unaccompanied minor service.