Table of Contents
Background and a DansDeals special investigation
On Wednesday, I heard about an incident on Lufthansa flight 401, a Boeing 747-8 that flew from JFK to Frankfurt, that was almost too hard to believe. Allegedly, Lufthansa refused to allow any of the Jews from that flight onto their connecting flight to Budapest, while non-Jews were free to continue on their journeys. Two dozen armed police officers ensured that no Jews boarded the flight or caused issues at the gate.
Could this really happen in 2022?
I set out to investigate and spoke to more than a dozen passengers onboard that flight. Most agreed to speak on the record, though some said they needed anonymity. I also requested comment from Lufthansa.
After days of interviews with passengers, it does appear that nearly all visibly Jewish passengers were lumped together for collective punishment, as Lufthansa didn’t bother to identify the small number of mask offenders onboard the flight.
Chilling video shared with DansDeals and posted below appears to confirm that Lufthansa banned all Jews on the flight because in a Lufthansa supervisor’s words, it was the Jews that made the mess and Jews that made the problems, and that all Jews onboard had to suffer due to the sins of the few.
What happened onboard Lufthansa flight 401
Piecing together many passenger stories, here is my understanding of what happened.
Last week, thousands of Jews made an annual pilgrimage to visit the grave of Rabbi Yeshaya Steiner of Kerestir, known as Reb Shayala Kerestirer, on the 3 Iyar yahrtzeit (date of his passing) in 1925. Reb Shayala was famed for his warm hospitality and for his miraculous blessings. In 2020, COVID stopped people from going, and last year there were permits required and charter busses were denied at the border. With Europe fully reopening, there was a lot of pent up demand this year and Jews filled up planes on many airlines to reach Kerestir, today known as Bodrogkeresztúr, Hungary.
While US carriers have dropped mask requirements, rules in airports and on foreign carriers can be confusing. For example, you don’t need to wear a mask on KLM planes to their Amsterdam hub, but you do need to wear it in the Amsterdam airport. You do need a mask on Lufthansa planes to their Frankfurt hub, but you don’t need to wear a mask in the Frankfurt airport.
Lufthansa flights from JFK and Newark to Frankfurt on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, were filled with Jews, mostly Hasidic.
Two NYC based travel agencies sold tickets on Tuesday’s Lufthansa flight 401 from JFK to Frankfurt connecting to Wednesday’s Lufthansa flight 1334 from Frankfurt to Budapest. Main Street Travel sold 80 group tickets, while Plan It Rite sold 30 group tickets. Dozens of other Jews on the flight booked their own travel not as part of any group, some with cash and others using miles. It would seem that somewhere between 135-170 Jews were on the flights in total.
Lufthansa requires surgical masks or N95s to be worn on flights, and handed out 3 ply masks to everyone who didn’t have a mask or only had a cloth mask at boarding.
I’ve written before about how to avoid getting kicked off your flight. It’s always critical to listen to masking rules where they are still required, even if you’re not used to masking elsewhere. If you don’t feel that you’re able to mask for a long flight, it would be prudent to choose an airline that doesn’t have masking requirements.
David Landau was on the flight with his wife. They redeemed miles to fly in business class and were not part of any group. He heard from friends who flew on Lufthansa on the previous days that the crew had some issues with mask compliance and he sensed that the crew was warned of this and seemed on edge from the beginning. Lufthansa has two business class sections on the 747-8, the entire upstairs, and in a section downstairs behind first class. He said that mask compliance was very good in his section downstairs, and nobody had to be asked to put their mask on.
David told me that about halfway through the flight, a pilot made an announcement that the flight attendants were frustrated with people blocking the galleys in prayer, and for having to repeat themselves about needing to wear a mask. He warned that people not obeying orders would have a problem with their connecting flight.
Yitzy Schmidt travels frequently to Europe on business and was sitting in the small economy section nestled between business class and premium economy downstairs. He said that most people were wearing masks, but there was one male flight attendant who watched everyone’s mask like a hawk, pouncing on the opportunity to remind people to cover their noses with a mask and to replace the mask in between bites. The flight attendant did speak to both non-Jews and Jews alike to keep their mask over their nose. He didn’t see any major arguments, though he felt that the flight attendant acted unprofessionally and too emotionally when he reminded people to continue properly masking.
Masked Hasidic Jews in prayer aboard Lufthansa flight 401. Only Jews onboard the flight were denied boarding on their connecting flights, while non-Jews from the flight had no issues.
Yitzy told me that the flight was mostly Jewish, with about 80% of them being visibly Hasidic Jews.
Usher Schik used United miles to book business class on the flight. He was booked to fly upstairs, but was moved downstairs as his seat was inoperative. He saw a flight attendant ask one person to wear their mask, but otherwise didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary until the pilot’s announcement.
Moshe Reisman was sitting in business class upstairs where there were Jews and non-Jews, but no flight attendants requested that people wear masks.
While Lufthansa officially requires masks in all cabins, it’s very common that airlines look the other way in premium cabins. In fact some airlines, such as Cathay Pacific, don’t require masks in premium cabins as they say there is sufficient space in those cabins for masks not to be needed.
Zev Herskovitz was seated in premium economy, where he said mask compliance was very good. His only notification that something was amiss was when the pilot made his announcement.
At the pointy end of the Lufthansa 747 are 8 first class seats, 3 of which were occupied by Jews that I talked to. Max Weingarten and his business partner Eli Meisels purchased seats through their own travel agent not as part of any group. Chuny Rosen is a DansDeals fanatic and he purchased his first class seat using 87K Avianca Lifemiles.
They told me that there was zero mask enforcement in first class and that one of the first class flight attendants was not wearing her own mask for most of the flight. Passengers in first class didn’t wear masks for most of the flight and weren’t asked to.
From talking to several passengers in economy, it seems like there were a couple of isolated masking issues in economy class, both among some visibly Hasidic Jews as well as non-Jews. It’s a shame that they flouted the rules, but it’s unclear why those few passengers weren’t singled out for punishment as would happen on most airlines in the world.
What happened next is just astounding.
What happened at the connecting gate for Lufthansa flight 1334
Usher Schik was one of the first passengers to arrive at the connecting gate to Budapest. He was surprised to see police officers coming to the gate, at first half a dozen, and then two dozen armed officers. Lufthansa agents were evasive about the police presence and for why they weren’t boarding the flight at the expected boarding time, despite the screen showing an expected on-time departure at 7:10am.
David Landau told me that at 7:20am they finally started boarding, but this was no typical boarding. The gate agent was paging individuals by name to come up and board the flight. He recalled that the paged individuals that were able to board were not visibly Jewish, but he recalled that a Rosen was paged and he saw that he didn’t make it onto the flight.
I tracked that down to first class passenger Chuny Rosen, who said his name was paged. He was in middle of praying and was still wearing his talis and tefilin when he went up to the gate to ask why he was paged. The gate agent asked if he was part of “the group from NYC” and he said he was by himself and booked his own ticket, and then went back to take off his talis and tefilin, a process that takes several minutes, and bring his bags with him. By the time he came back he said the gate was closed and he couldn’t board the flight.
Usher Schik was sitting at a nearby gate, when his brother-in-law ran to tell him that his name had been paged to board the flight. When he went up to board the gate agent asked if he was part of “the group from NYC.” He too said that he was not with any group and had booked his own ticket with his miles, however the gate agent denied him boarding. When he asked why his name was paged to board, the Lufthansa agent had an officer push him away from the boarding area.
How did Lufthansa decide who to page? That’s a mystery I can’t seem to figure out.
Usher’s brother-in-law was also on a mileage ticket, but his name was not paged. Usher wondered if perhaps they thought his name didn’t sound Jewish and that’s why he was paged?
Yitzy Schmidt noticed two non-Jews that were also on their JFK to Frankfurt flight at their connecting gate to Budapest. He chatted with them and they were perplexed at the police presence at the gate, but they were then paged to board the flight and they were allowed onto their connecting flight.
Yitzy took several videos of the scene at the gate:
Yitzy tried asking the Lufthansa agent if being Jewish made him part of “the group from NYC,” but police kept them away from the Lufthansa agents, while saying that they were just there to enforce what Lufthansa tells them to do. It seemed to him that Lufthansa was using the police to shy away from answering passengers’ questions.
It appears that the only Jews that made it onto the connecting flight to Budapest were first class passengers and business partners Max Weingarten and Eli Meisels.
Max tells me that when they heard individuals being paged, he quickly got in line behind them and was able to board. He has wearing a black polo shirt and didn’t look like most of the Hasidic Jews on the flight and had no problem boarding. Max readily admits that he wasn’t wearing a mask in first class from JFK to Frankfurt as the flight attendant also wasn’t masked and nobody asked him to wear a mask.
Eli tried boarding behind him, but when they scanned his boarding pass it blinked red and said do not board. The gate agent asked if he was coming from JFK, and he said yes. Eli was wearing a white dress shirt, as were most of the Jewish passengers on the flight, but unlike most of the others, he was wearing a baseball cap. His business partner Max in the black polo shirt but wearing a yarmulka, was already in the jetbridge, but came back to see what was going on. Max explained that Eli was his business partner and the Lufthansa gate agents had a discussion and then allowed him to board the flight. He recalls seeing a Hasidic Jew trying to board, but was denied and pushed away from the area.
Eli says there were 5 total people in the Euro-business class section and roughly 12-15 people in economy on the connecting flight to Budapest. After they boarded the captain announced boarding complete, the doors were closed, and the plane pulled away from the gate faster than he has ever seen a plane do so in his life. After moving away from the terminal, the plane sat for several minutes before departing. The plane should have held up to 192 passengers, but took off with no more than 20.
Masks are not required in Frankfurt airport.
Max felt sickened to his stomach about the scene and felt like he was in a scene out of World War II, with Jews being openly discriminated against. He flew back through Frankfurt that evening for his return flight and had to spend the night there before flying Singapore Airlines nonstop from Frankfurt to JFK the next morning, but it felt nauseating for him to be in Frankfurt after the day’s events. He plans on boycotting the airline in the future and would like to see others do the same.
In another of Yitzy Schmidt’s videos, people can be heard asking the police, “Why do you hate us?” One person can be heard calling out “Nazi.”
In Germany, calling someone a Nazi is considered slander, and German Police have sued Americans who have called them Nazis in the past.
The officer is not amused and demands to know who said it. He accuses one passenger, but they denied saying it. The office again asks, “Who said the N-word” for Nazi, but nobody admits to it.
Passengers are paged by name to board the flight to Budapest:
A woman wants to know why she is being denied boarding if she wore her mask on the previous flight.
Here is another look at the chaotic scene at the gate. At 3:37 into the video, a Lufthansa agent says, “Due to operational reasons, coming from the flight from New York, for all passengers here we have to cancel you on this flight. You know why it was.”
The Lufthansa agent avoids answering questions, behind a police line:
Trying to get rebooked onto other flights
After the flight was cancelled, the first few people to run to the rebooking desk were able to be put on a later Lufthansa flight to Budapest. However shortly thereafter an edict was made that all passengers on flight 1334 were banned from flying on Lufthansa for 24 hours and could not have their tickets rebooked.
Aron Sofer, a visibly Hasidic Jew, says that he was also paged to board, but he was in middle of praying. He finished praying and went to board, but was not allowed onto the flight.
Jacob Hoffman says that there was just a handful of people on the flight, a couple Jewish and couple not, who weren’t masked. He was masked the entire time, but the rebooking center told him that they would not rebook him to fly that day. He purchased a new ticket on Lufthansa for $735, but when he went to checkin he was recognized by another agent and was told that he could not get a boarding pass even for a new ticket. Eventually Lufthansa took his passport into a back office, relented, and issued his boarding pass.
Jacob’s friend Gershon Neustadt was not as lucky. He rebooked travel on another airline and Lufthansa cancelled his return ticket home due to missing his leg to Budapest. Lufthansa refused to help him despite not allowing him to fly to Budapest that day and he had to spend over $1,100 for a new flight home.
Chilling video of Lufthansa blaming the Jews for the problems
Perhaps the craziest video of them all comes from one passenger, who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation. The passenger sent me the full unedited video, but asked that I trim it and add blurring effects to the video before sharing it.
It is chilling and shocking.
After the flight was closed he went to the rebooking desk but was told that he couldn’t fly on Lufthansa for 24 hours. He then went to locate a Lufthansa supervisor to request that he be rebooked to Budapest as he wasn’t part of any group ticket. He asked if this was an upper management decision and says he was told that it was.
Note: YouTube has removed the video for containing hate speech! You can still watch it on Twitter here or here:
Here is the back and forth from 0:40 into the video.
Passenger: This is gruesome.
Lufthansa: It would have been if you were African, if you were Polander.
Passenger: I was wearing a mask the entire time, why am I lumped in with them?
Lufthansa: It was one, everyone has to pay for a couple.
Passenger: What do you mean everybody, everybody from that race? Everybody else on the flight went.
Lufthansa: Not everybody.
Passenger: The non-Jewish people on the flight went. Why are only the Jewish people paying for other people’s crimes?
Lufthansa: Because it’s Jews coming from JFK.
Passenger: Oh, so Jewish people coming from JFK are paying for the crimes of a few people?
Lufthansa: No
Passenger: Jewish people are paying for the crimes of Israel?
Lufthansa: No
Passenger: Just the Jewish people on that flight?
Lufthansa: Do you want to discuss with me or no? Do you want to listen to me?
Passenger: I’m like shocked beyond, never in my adult life. I’ve never heard this.
Lufthansa: If you want to do it like this, Jewish people who were the mess, who made the problems.
Passenger: So Jewish people on the plane made a problem, so all Jews are banned from Lufthansa for the day?
Lufthansa: Just for this flight.
The German term Sippenhaft refers to the idea that everyone in a group should pay for the act of one and it sure seems like it applies here. However, Lufthansa didn’t stop with the two actual groups booked on the flight, they appear to have targeted all Jews on the flight, whether or not they were part of the actual groups.
That collective punishment and singling out of Jews, a couple of whom were called up to board and then denied boarding because of their looks, reminded several passengers I spoke to of the collective punishment mentality used by Nazi Germany during World War II.
More confirmation of the collective punishment
Usher Schik told me that he was one of the lucky ones that ran to be rebooked before Lufthansa decided on a 24 hour ban. He noticed that some of the Lufthansa gate agents from their original flight to Budapest were working the next flight as well. He spoke to one of those agents and said that just because we look alike, doesn’t mean that were were part of the same group and deserved collective punishment!
The agent told him that if it were up to them, everyone would have just gone. However the captain of the flight to Budapest decided that he didn’t want any of them on his plane. The gate agent said that they tried arguing with the captain twice to no avail and ultimately it was his call. But Usher points out that with two dozen police officers at the gate, Lufthansa’s intentions were perfectly clear, they had no intention of letting people fly.
Finding other ways to fly
Chuny Rosen ran to the Lufthansa rebooking desk and was able to get onto a flight to Vienna. Right after he was confirmed, he heard a supervisor tell the agents at the desk not to rebook anyone else that was denied boarding on Lufthansa 1334 onto other Lufthansa flights for 24 hours. He was supposed to fly back that night via Turkish Airlines, but due to the delay to get to Kerestir he had to cancel that flight and wound up buying a new Delta flight via Paris and taking an extra day to get home. He regretted not just going to the First Class Terminal as he assumes that he would have been put onto the connecting flight to Budapest had he been in that lounge, as they transfer you in a Porsche directly to the plane. However he was worried that the connection wasn’t long enough to make it to the first class terminal.
Zev Herskovitz tried getting rebooked to Budapest, but Lufthansa told him he was banned from flying on their airline for 24 hours and that the decision came from higher ups and could not be appealed regardless of whether he was masked or not. His travel agent rebooked him on LOT Polish to Košice, Slovakia, via Warsaw. He said he wore his mask for the duration of the flight, was never warned, and can’t understand why he was banned.
David Landau was one of the lucky ones that ran to get rebooked on a later flight to Budapest. His friend was not as fast and by the time he got to the rebooking desk, was told he had a 24 hour Lufthansa flight ban. He wound up paying $800 for a new ticket to Vienna. The friend was then unable to checkin for his flight home as Lufthansa cancelled his return ticket due to missing the leg to Budapest, which meant that he had to spend another $1,200 for a new ticket home.
Yitzy Schmidt, who travels often to Europe on business, was also told by Lufthansa that he was banned from the airline for 24 hours. He felt so disgusted by the collective punishment and so emotionally drained by the behavior of Lufthansa and the German police that he used his miles to immediately fly home in United business class without ever making it to Kerestir. He couldn’t wait to get off of European soil after what happened to him and other Jews on the flight.
Aron Sofer went to the rebooking center and explained that he was paged to board the flight but was then denied. The rebooking center told him that he had a 24 hour flight ban and that “none of you people will be flying on Lufthansa today.”
The Plan It Rite travel agency paid out of their pocket for their passengers to get to Vienna on Austrian Air, and had to charter new buses to get them to Kerestir.
The Main Street Travel agency paid out of their pocket for their passengers to get to Košice, Slovakia, via Warsaw on LOT Polish and had to charter new buses to get them to Kerestir.
The dozens of passengers that booked their own travel were on their own to find their way to Kerestir.
Most people were only planning on being in Kerestir for a few hours and were planning on visiting gravesites of religious leaders in other cities via charter bus, but they wound up losing those stops and having to spend an extra day in Europe, along with other expenses.
Lufthansa’s response
I asked Lufthansa for their side of the story, and they sent me this statement,
“We confirm that a larger group of passengers could not be carried yesterday on Lufthansa flight LH1334 from Frankfurt to Budapest, because the travelers refused to wear the legally mandated mask (medical mask) on board.
By German law, Lufthansa, similar to any and all carriers operating in Germany, is obliged to follow the legal requirements of this mandate. In the new German Infection Protection Act, the obligation to wear a mask remains in place in public transport and thus also on board flights, as well as across all aspects of air transport. Medical or FFP2 masks must therefore continue to be worn on board Lufthansa flights, at all times.
For legal reasons we cannot disclose the number of guests involved in the incident, however Lufthansa has rebooked the guests on the next available flight to their final destination. A prerequisite for transportation is that the travelers complied with the mask mandate, which is a legal requirement.
As safety and security of our passengers and staff is our top priority, Lufthansa will continue to abide by all legal requirements, including the mask mandate imposed by the German government and those of the countries served. We do so without prejudice and with the wellbeing of all our guests.”
I told Lufthansa that I spoke with several passengers who insist that they had their medical mask on for the duration of the flight without any issues and asked how they decided who could continue onto Budapest. I also asked about the numerous passengers who were told they were denied flying on Lufthansa for 24 hours, while Lufthansa’s statement indicated that they were rebooked on the next available flight.
They did not respond to my further questions.
I also sent them a draft of this post, but did not receive an immediate response.
German media coverage
The Frankfurt Allgemeine, one of Germany’s largest newspapers, covered the story here after being tipped off by a DansDeals Forum member. They reported there were 127 banned passengers, though evidence, including videos from Lufthansa agents, shows it was more than that. Lufthansa tells that newspaper that there were 30 people on board the connecting flight to Budapest.
Lufthansa needs to address this and make things right
Based on numerous firsthand accounts and testimony from Lufthansa, as well as the haphazard calling of select passenger names, it does seem that Lufthansa used collective punishment to avoid the work of identifying actual offenders.
The grouping together of visible Jews that weren’t even part of the same group and just happened to be on the same flights, seems to have been anti-Semitic based on only visible Jews being left behind, but reportedly gentiles and two less visible Jews that were on the same flights were allowed to proceed to Budapest.
Lufthansa’s statement appears to be covering up for some of their egregious decision making, including ultimately banning passengers from flying on Lufthansa for 24 hours, causing significant expense and distress.
I hope that Lufthansa investigates this incident thoroughly, that bad actors are properly disciplined, and apologies and compensation are offered. I’d also like to hear what the airline is doing so that this is made into a never again situation.
In the meantime, a class action lawsuit is in the works.
Do you think Lufthansa agents acted in an anti-Semitic manner?
Updates since this story was posted, including YouTube Deletion
Update, 5/8 at 3:15pm ET: Lufthansa has responded to a request for comment about this post before it was published as follows,
Lufthansa is currently investigating the events of Wednesday May 4th in order to clarify the exact procedures and background of the incident.
We follow all related media reports and blogs, but cannot comment any further so far and at that stage. Many thanks for your understanding.
Update, 5/9 at 7am ET: YouTube and Instagram have removed our video of the Lufthansa supervisor for containing hate speech and placed a strike on our account!
We have filed an appeal for it to be reinstated.
For now, you can watch it on Twitter here,
YouTube just removed our video showing a Lufthansa supervisor blaming problems on #TheJews due to it "violating our hate speech policy".
Don’t stay silent on #AntiSemitism!
Share this story and video!https://t.co/Qx2ONkJhdS@ElonMusk @youtube pic.twitter.com/ANpnNKyTEs
— DansDeals (@DansDeals) May 9, 2022
Click here to see 9 things that are highly problematic with this apology and statement.
Update, 5/9 at 7pm ET: YouTube and Instagram have reinstated the video and removed the strike from our account.
Thank you @TeamYouTube for this apology and response. Shining a light on #Antisemitism in the world should never be silenced.
Now we wait for @Lufthansa to do the same. https://t.co/euBdfnkVsJ
— DansDeals (@DansDeals) May 9, 2022
Update, 5/10 at 11:10am ET: With mainstream media starting to pick up this story, Lufthansa has issued this apology and statement. Unfortunately, they are still referring to denying “the large group” when in fact there were several dozen Jews on the flight who were denied boarding despite not being part of any group. This apology skirts the primary issue of racial profiling by Lufthansa employees.
Update, 5/11 at 3pm ET: Lufthansa’s CEO has apologized to the Rabbi of Berlin and suspended employees involved in the incident. The company has not yet corrected their public apology.
Update, 5/11 at 12pm ET: This story has been picked up by the New York Times, the Washington Post, CBS News, JTA, Forward, The Jerusalem Post, Times of Israel, Haaretz, and all major publications in Germany such as the Frankffurter Allgemeine, Die Welt, BILD, and more.
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733 Comments On "OUTRAGEOUS: German Airline Bans Jews From Flying; Lufthansa Supervisor: It’s “Jewish People Who Were The Mess, Who Made The Problems, Everyone Has To Pay For A Couple!”"
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Horrible to watch just out of a pre ww2 movie…
Pls sue all the way. Wage that war back.
Putin chose the wrong country to De-Nazify
So it seems.
It would have been better if Putin had not chosen any country at all ‼️
Nazis exist in pretty much every country
This is horrifying.
הים אותו ים והגרמנים הם אותם גרמנים.
They haven’t changed much in the last 80 years.
Use of the word “they” means you are lumping all Germans into a group. Ironic.
It was a near unanimous election to elect Hitler
Just a small history lesson. Yemach sh’mo didn’t receive 50%of the vote. But was put over the threshold by a Christian conservative party who were more afraid of the socialists and communists gaining power. He actually barely made it with this support. Of course soon after most of them worshipped him.
What is this “a Christian conservative party” suppose to mean? In 1932 election The Nazi party was 230 and the Social Democrats (who refused to join the Nazi party) was 133, making 363 seats out of a total 608. So without each other, no matter who joined either party, there was no such a thing as being “put over the threshold” of anything. As a matter of history what happened is that there was no ruling party per se, but Hitler was appointed Chancellor because his party was the single largest (along with the implicit threat of violence). From there the Nazis engineer a fake “emergency” to declare martial law and from there rule by edict instead of by democratic legislature.
Hitler never won the election, he took over by force and legal trickery. I guess it’s time to expand out bigotery to the American school system then.
That is incorrect. It is correct that the NSDAP (Hitler’s Party) was gaining popularity from nationalistic propaganda (“we vs. them”, “regain greatness”, etc. pp.) they were supported by many but not the majority of Germans. In an attempt to use the popularity of “that fool” to stay in power and the blind belief they could control him he was installed as a puppet chancellor and we all know how it went.
The rise of a former president of the USA is eerily similar to anybody who cares to know the history.
Perhaps you mean the current one, who like the commenters here write about Hitler, won through trickery, deception, and laws changed to suit.
i would say the rise of the current president is eerily similar to history in germany. whom ever controls media…. controls the mind. twitter files has revealed things the fbi and democrats have done to control a narrative. as did hitler.
Wrong. That is a myth. Hitler did not win the election. I won’t explain everything here because it’s easy to look up, but I suggest you do so.
Actually in 1933 it wasn’t.
I’M JUST FINE WITH THAT
Absolutely, if I was a German policeman and someone called me a Nazi I eould be furious!
Don’t act like one and he wouldn’t be called one.
Defenitly you are not a German. The insult of beeing a Nazi to a German was and and sometimes still is used by a non German opponent. Evan in the early days of E, when German MoP rejected something or stand for another such an easy made “point” was used by media and opponents.
So your phrase “dont act like one to not be called one” is wrong. And you should in return be able to show , how this policeofficer was acting like or at least similar to a Naziofficer in lets say 1933 to 1945.
Germans killed millions innocent people, you – a descendant of your nazi predecesor who caused and proudly supported this – should sit down and be quiet. Us putting you all in one plate is a mere speck compared to what you, Germans, did.
Then you need to call all american decendants of slave owner aswell.
As a german it is sad to see jewish people having learned nothing from our history. The hate that is in your heart will lead you to damnation. No human beeing should ever sit down and be quiet when injustice is happening – but beeing a jew doesn’t make you a victim nor a perpetrator – your actions and your responibility to your actions are what defines you.
Completely crazy!!! Can’t believe this could happen in this day and age, especially in Germany of all places.
Would a lawsuit go through the USA system or germany system or both?
I flew Lufthansa in Biz class once from JFK to TLV via FRA with my family, an at check in they would not let any carry on bags, they said they we’re all too heavy, so I repacked and left one suitcase with just my Tallis and Tefilin, diapers and wipes and they said I had to check it!!! She said Sir I am afraid you will have to fly with no baggage tonight!!!!! In the meantime during the half hour ordeal I noticed NOT A SINGLE PASSENGER other than MY family even had bags weighed!!! I piped up and said to the agent, excuse me but I noticed that NOBODY else even had there bags weighed and I have to fly with 2 young infants with no diapers which are under the weight limit, on a connection flight to Israel, what am I suppossed to do this comes across as really antisemetic? Look and watch now for the next twenty minutes, you will see it’s only been me!! Should i not fly tonight? she immedietly gave me back my 2 carryons which were waiting to go on the belt and said I could go!!!! (she happened to have been German) UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!
Worst of allI got on the flight and of course AS USUAL on a flight from JFK Lufthansa could barely sell out their outdated business class and so I had empty seats all aorund me and TONS of EMPTY overhead bin space!!!!! To their credit the flight staff were polite it was just the lady on the ground!
I flew them once in First before that, this story happened years ago I was considering flying them again using Lifemiles in first, but I will have to use those miles somewhere else and Pray that I wont have to deal with Avianca’s dysfuncitional customer service!! I am happy that I only used Lifemiles whenever I flew them and they didn’t get $ from me!
Funny how such a bunch of really smart people can be so slow to learn. NEVER, and I mean NEVER, fly Lufthansa. If they give free tickets, a Jew has no business supporting them. They are the offspring of those who wantonly murdered six million of our brethren and you’re still shocked when something like this happens? When will we learn?
Germans, even fifty years after the most horrific event in human history, are still anti-semites. Very little has changed. Whatever it was in their gene that made them think that gassing and cremating human beings is a good idea has not yet been eradicated.
I flew them once (thirty years ago) because of an emergency and after experiencing blatant anti-semitism from a flight attendant for asking about my kosher meal, I resolved never to make that mistake again.
Don’t forget that these are the same people who rounded up your bubbies and zaidies and slaughtered them. Don’t fly Lufthansa.
Nor LOT or any of the airlines of countries who happily complied to eradicate Jews from Europe.
Nor British airways and the rest of IAG which is 30% owend by Qatar who supports hamas?
The polish and Ukrainians were no צדיקים during wwII but how do you compare them to the Nazis ?
Because the Germans took 6 years to begin killing Jews, the polish and Ukrainians began as soon as Germany invaded. Without anyone needing to tell them to
Lithuanian and Hungarian. The polish didn’t kill Jews themselves like them.
not only did they kill Jews during the war, but many Poles also took the liberty of killing Jews in the nearly lawless period after the war as well.
And now the Polish government has the gall to pass a law banning you from saying the truth.
Ask Putin
The Guards and operators in Treblinka, where much of my Family was murdered, were in fact Ukrainians. ( As per Wikipedia)
Can confirm this. Just because some of those Ukrainians held Polish citizenships before WW2 doesn’t mean that it’s Polish people who committed the atrocities there. Those guards and operators are still Ukrainian even if they had another citizenship prior to being enlisted to work for the Nazis and they sure as heck chose to identify as Ukrainian instead of identifying as the nationality that came with whatever citizenship they held before WW2.
The Ukrainians were worse than the Nazis. This is a well-known fact- ask Holocaust survivors from those parts and read Holocaust history. There were times that their brutality shocked even the Nazis, and that really says something. There is still a percentage of Ukrainians even today who identify as some type of Neo-Nazi. There is no magical end to Jew-hatred.
Ukrainians rightly welcomed the Germans as liberators from their communist oppressors.
Very true about LOT. I had a terrible experience with LOT out of TLV the other week, as did plenty of other people on the flight. Hard to say it was inherently anti semitic, as they seemed to just be dysfunctional, but they severely overbooked, denied boarding to dozens of people, split up families on same itinerary in connecting airport and forced them to leave young teenagers behind, and refused to help rebook passengers denied boarding. There were certainly strong overtones of hostility and complete disinterest in assisting in any way, both from the call center agents and airport staff, although it’s possible that LOT treats everyone terribly and not just obvious Jews. Tons of people on the flight are disputing the charges.
We ended up rebooking with Jordanian, and were treated like absolute royalty in comparison.
I was told by others that this is normal for LOT, and they’re known to treat Jews like trash.
I will say that of all European countries I’ve been in, Poland had the most overt and open anti semitism coming from the average citizen, although that’s a pretty anecdotal experience.
When I took LOT a few years ago, they were professional and even nice. One Flight Attendant allowed me to daven neitz out of the way in her seat area while she was busy preparing food in the kitchen.
Or SWISS, Austrian Airlines, and Brussels Airlines which are owned by lufthansa?
Wouldn’t confirm that statement. Most Germans don’t think anti-semit in 2022 as previously stated, mostly refugees and foreigners here do, fact. Germans live in a kind of shame since WW2 and feel accountable for what an Austrian idiot and generations before us did. Sometimes we are tired of this kind of prejudice, which we get confrontated with on a daily base since 50 years, we can’t change history, sadly. Wish we could.
If, by the way, there is less sensitivity on board at Lufthansa for Jewish traditions, it is rather due to a lack of know how about Jewish culture, which unfortunately has not developed here in the last decades, while it is omnipresent in other countries (like the US) and thus makes it easier to react appropriately to claims. Deepest apologies from a german fellow.
Perhaps the pilot needs to think about why he/she is not exposed to so much Jewish practice and tradition on a daily basis. If one lives with the collective shame of genocide, they probably should give all leeway and benefit of the doubt when encountering the remnants of those people. I once flew Aeroflot and I felt a form of hatred from some of the mail staff on the flight. Like Germany, Russia no longer has antiSemitic policies. But the secular and religious antiSemitism in a culture does not dissipate overnight. There were great German people during the Holocaust who understood the evils of Naziism. But unfortunately, enough people were swept up by the propaganda. War veterans did not suddenly change their minds after WW2. And they certainly did not teach their children to love Jews either.
This is a blatant act of prejudice. My guess is that the airlines thinks that since Hassidic Jews are less accepted on the world stage, they are able to get away with lumping them into a group of bad actors. This is going to be very bad for Lufthansa. They messed up very badly.
Agreed 100%
Lumping all Lufthansa employees together doesn’t make it better.
Yes it does. Taste of their own medicine.
A retired Lufthansa captain, and his wife have been among our best friends over 40 years now. Pro Israeli, and strongly anti nationalists. So are many of their friends and relatives whom we met on several occasions. They told me that the Christian civilization is strongly based on antisemitism, this way or another. I just want to mention that no German or Pole has tried to shoot a Jew in the last 40 years, to the best of my knowledge. How many Jews have been attacked by grass roots Americans, shot and killed? How about the Labour party in the UK? the National front in France? etc etc… the world is antisemitic, get used to it. But most Goyim don’t get out of their way to show their hatred to Jews. Being an Israeli, I am sorry to say that although generalization is wrong, many of these Hassidic Jews did earn antisemitism honestly (as per my late mother in law, a holocaust survivor herself). Human nature is a complicated business. BTW, both my parents had been saved by Poles, not for money, but of sheer humanity. This doesn’t change the fact that the majority of Poles are bloody antisemites, just as most Europeans, Americans, and now even some Japanese…
Well written @Frequent flyer , thanks to for the comment
It might be tiring to be confronted with the shame of what “an Austrian idiot generations before did”, but my grandfather grew up with no father because he was murdered in Bergen Belsen. He, who was there as well, remained heavily traumatized for all his life, and the effect was not lost on his family, my mother or myself. My very large pre-war extended family would switch places with you and be confronted with shame for a few decades in an instant- alas, most of them (one million of them and their countrymen) were murdered in a matter of months in 1944.
Forgive me for being less than charitable towards the aggressors.
Appreciate your kindness
Just find it funny that while segregating a bunch of Jews and picking on them, the cop got pissed off about being called a Nazi….
When the Hassidic Jews (a large group of them) are rioting in Jerusalem, they call the Jewish-Israeli policemen Nazis. They shout it loud, and so do their little 8 years old kids. Do these policemen have the right to be pissed off?
It’s extremely easy and convenient to blame in Austrian for the crimes of Germans as well you need to take responsibility for your forefathers crimes and go out of your way to make sure that Jews are treated with preferential treatment in Germany not vice versa
A few remarks on your comment:
– The person you are dismissively calling “a Viennese idiot” was massively worshipped and cheered and followed by a staggeringly overwhelming majority who hysterically and enthusiastically and gruesomely “followed orders”.
– Why on earth does any flight agency need to understand anything cultural about a flyer before he is allowed to fly? All we need is a flyer and a flight ticket and a plane and a pilot to fly it, correct? Unless of course we are talking about an agency (Lufthansa) still racking its brains about what they are euphemistically calling “The New York Group” and what makes them tick?
– Consider for a moment the literal words used by the Lufthansa Executive herself: “it is the Jews who created the problem, so THEIR group has to pay”. WOW! Was she quoting directly from Mein Kampf? Why do we need more proof than that to call these disgraceful events a full-on hate crime?
– Dear Frequent Flyer, It is extremely kind of you to apologize for massive crimes committed by your people. But it is extremely little extremely late.
Frequent Flyer bears no responsibility for the the crimes of their ancestors. Your end point comes off as extremely rude to me, to a person who has been quite civil. They did not have to apologize, they did nothing personally. Likewise, the rest of the group that was following the rules properly, absolutely was wronged here, and I hope they win a quite large lawsuit against this airline
You are 100% right.
Interesting that you feel bad that you are blamed for “what an Austrian idiot and generations before us did”.
Shouldn’t you be treated by your own rule…
Lufthansa: It was one, “everyone has to pay for a couple”.
Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Stop apologizing for nasty Germans. Aware Jews do not remain in Germany.
Same exact thing happened to me 4 years ago. I will never and haven’t used them again.
Manifested antisemitism is a result of one thing and one thing only: assimilation. The Nazis were merely the stick, as Rav Elchanan Wasserman noted. There is no reason to believe that their great-grandchildren would be any worse as Jew-haters than any other gentile.
Then why were the least “assimilated” Jews the ones who were targeted. This is a disgusting theology, and you should be embarrassed to say it out loud.
You mean you have heard of only the least assimilated ones? Have you checked the records/log books, and looked into their individual and family stories?
Rav Miller, who was in Europe prior to WW II, wrote that there were people singing Hatikva as they entered, passed through the gates of, Auschwitz. Those people were, unfortunately, rather assimilated.
There are various reasons given for why many of the “least assimilated” were also murdered by the Nazis.
But none of that changes the facts that assimilation is the rot that causes anti-Semitism.
The Brisker Rav has a piece on it, as do others. You can lookup the beginning of Shemos.
It’s true for any group, not only jews. However, it’s sad that it’s like that.
Agreed.
Most of Europe still hates Jews. I don’t know why any visit, and I certainly don’t know why any continue to live there.
No,they dont,and plenty uf us live very well here.Keep living in the land that “loves” jews,the usa,who closed their doors to jews fleeing nazism.
Only the Jews in politics in the US hate other Jews.
A few years back my husband had to fly Lufthansa to a conference. When he arrived to the airport, the flight attendents spoke to him only in German (which he understands) as our name is German. He answered in English… After 5 minutes of this he told him: speak English. I am Jewish.
Wow,that is so”bad”,im shocked,lol
Isn’t it ironic, how you use the same logic that Nazis used to vilify Jews (inferior genes) to vilify germans?
Germans vilified themselves by sending our ancestors to the gas chambers. We’re just saying that they haven’t changed their tune. Irony is when the unexpected happens. There’s nothing ironic about the Germans/Nazis/Amalek hating us and trying to kill us; it’s who they are. So too, there’s nothing ironic about us hating them, given their track record.
Sorry, but the German’s have genuinely accepted resposability and educate their youth of the crimes of their forefathers. That is not true if any other country and many were as culpable as the Nazi’s. My grandfather an many other relatives were murdered by them.
I am not a fan of Luftansa having at one time had to fly with them very frequently to Eastern Europe and they were the only option. On one occasion I missed a connection due to the late arrival of my flight, they first made me prove they were responsible then told me they could not provide me a connection until the next day. They discussed between themselves in German that there was a connection on that day via Moscow, but why bother. I asked for the flight via Moscow so they asked how I knew about it, so I told them you just spoke about it. This elicited a response, “why did you not tell us you speak German” ! And they gave me the flight.
The fact is imho they are just very rules based people and some people don’t appreciate that.
Rules based? They are an international airline and they give preference to their own language speakers? How primitive is that? Obviously they are grading people.
You are offended that the german personnel on a german airline speaks german to german passengers? To me, it just feels like you are set to hate everything german.
SOME Germans accepted responsibility, but apparently learned nothing. If this new generation is truly not responsible for the horrors committed by their parents and grandparents against Jews, they have a funny way of showing it. They have a plane full of Jews who are not ashamed to wear their Judaism. One of them displeases a German flight attendant in some fashion and nearly 200 Jews are made to pay for that. If that is not recognized by Germans (passengers, crew and cops alike) as antisemitism, they have learned nothing and they need to take a tour of Dachau. How many German school children have been to Dachau? It should be mandatory before they graduate, as Israeli children (including Arab Israelis) send their children to Auschwitz.
So while I accept that you, @Anonymous are not an anti-Semite, you are not dissolved of your responsibility towards those who are. What would you say to a fellow German about this incident? Would you disagree with them when they say “all the Jews are the same?” Be honest with yourself. If this incident took place with an African American who misbehaved on the flight and all African Americans were prevented from connecting flights, how do you think the world would view it?
Wait. While commenting on an article highlighting the “sippenhaft” of a large group of hasidic jews for the unruly behavior of a few, you state that all germans are responsible for the behavior of all other germans — living and dead?
This is a great way to put it. I don’t get jow all of these other commenters couldn’t manage to word their beliefs like you do and just made comments generalizing a group
Didn’t Nazis lump all Jews into the same categorisation because of the historic actions of just a few? It seems you are doing the same to Germans who aren’t responsible for their ancestors’ actions. Chicken or the egg? Perhaps everyone needs a spoonful of tolerance.
Your inability to separate individuals from a group’s action and not generalize them is embarassing. And the fact that you’re probably an adult makes it even worse
Agreed.
I’ve flown with Lufthansa loads of times and if the flight is full and space is tight they politely ask EVERY passenger to check their cabin baggage into the hold for free, I am flying with Brussels Air tomorrow morning and have had the same offer/request by email.
I suppose you always get a few idiots who see prejudice and bigotry where there is none.
You implying it was genetic to become nazis and that being a nazi’s decendant makes you more likely to become one is just as stupid as any of the beliefs the nazis had
Sue them. Show them 1939 doesn’t work anymore.
Cancel culture, boycott…anything and everything possible to get them to file for bankruptcy. Other airlines are watching.
Attorneys are working on a class action lawsuit
How do you know?
Thank you Dan for a thorough recap and well researched article. Unlike some of the other ‘jewish’ click bait ‘news’ sites.
Here at DansDeals, we don’t do clickbait 🙂
Don’t fly lufthansa no matter how much money it saves you
Don’t drive German cars
German soil is cursed and full of Jewish blood
All
Of Europe as well
Sorry but sadly & frighteningly America IS becoming the same …
Karl Lagerfeld Chanel RIP said “Germany murdered 6 mil Jews to then replace them with their worst enemy” And it is the same in EU/UK with open borders w “migrants/Refugees”from ME/Africa…
Out of curiosity,Wonder where the pilot was..if he was from ME or a socialist German
The UK is in Europe..most Brits view anti-semitism as on a par with farting in the lift
And what should we do about your country who didnt gave a damm about the millions of dead jews in Europe?
That’s not strictly true and besides, Jews in the US can freely practice our religion and there is no master race in the US.
You must be living on another planet…how about these poor Jews who were shot in a synagogue in PA? no master race in the US? make me laugh. You, most probably, created your own world to live in. Antisemitism in the US is widely spread everywhere. How about the slogan:”The Jews will not replace us”? and, most unfortunately, it is growing exponentially.
Have you forgotten basic American history? Slavery?
Amen Morris
Why would any Jews want to fly Lufthansa in the first place after what the germans did to the Jews
Because they use miles, and it is cheap
cause then you couldnt fly any airline except like Nicaragua air and Bangladesh air.
Don’t you think that money can be a factor?
Why would the great-grandchildren or even great-great-… be automatically liable for their ancestor’s actions?
They are behaving the same way, up to their execs. By their acts you shall know them.
I used them and will keep using them,the holocaust is over.Some of us,live in 2022….
Some people never learn… Sheesh
True, Many of you are 2022 ostriches. That is until you are the victim of some atrocities. Let’s see how quickly you’ll want to move past that.
They are indeed nazis.
The thing is, they do require ‘Medical Masks’
FFP2 or N95, though they allowed everyone with the regular mask to board in NYC, they’re very strict on the type of mask on Germany, we don’t see anyone wearing a medical mask.
Could that be enough for them to deny everyone?
No, they handed out surgical masks to everyone upon boarding at JFK and people wore them throughout the flight.
Surprised they don’t require gas masks. Ya never know with the Germans…
Uhhhhhhhh
Great call!
Perhaps… but they did not deny everyone. How did they choose who to deny and those few they let go through? You have people who did not wear masks that were let through and a whole lot of people fully compliant that were refused. That includes some JFK originating folks as well. It would seem they singled out Jews assuming that they will cause problems and they all cause problems.
I was on the flight. The ppl with cloth marks were handed medical grade masks at the gate and an overwhelming majority of them wore it the whole flight without issue. In my section there were 3 ppl causing issues and 2 of them were German. The videos you see were in the airport where masks are not required.
Jack, did you notice if the 2 Germans who were causing trouble were allowed to board the connecting flight?
Listen, the Germans are as stupid now as Mengele et al were in the 40s. Covid is not a serious illness for most people. People are not better off being super-protected. There is a lot of medical evidence that shows this.
Lol, always funny seeing people call others stupid and then following that up with one of the dumbest rhings to ever say.
Also, generalizing a whole group like this is inherently stupid
OMG world are we living in .
while unacceptable what is also unacceptable is the Chassishers who think they rule the world and that rules don’t apply to them – I’m fine w/ refusing to mask up (and I have done it) but when they ban you from the next flight don’t complain!
who exactly shouldn’t complain??!
I was on the flight and most Chassidim were wearing masks. And they didn’t ban Chassidim from flying they banned JEWS from flying. My daughter and I are far from Chassidish looking and we were banned.
You apparently aren’t too good at reading details
Why so much hate? Didn’t you just read the article … ur passing the hate forward, what’s your goal … watch your words…. we’re all gods people.
Oh please. Yes technically we are all G-d’s people but so were Kyin, Ysavel, Achav, Herod, the Moabites, the Ammonites etc etc etc.
To quote a wise man on DDF;
“Commenters who are blaming the “chassidim” are just as bad as LH blaming the “Jews”
you sound just like them. Chassidishers? They hate YOU too, Sruly
He said Chassishers, I think it’s part of a car’s body (chassis).
“Chassishers” are bad but the “Germaners” are fine?
Hate to compare you to the Lufthansa fellows, but I do think you should grab the next avail course on prejudice regardless of which race.
Wow such hatred
Wada they say “Let the haters hate”…
cruelly, have you smoked khasshish before dumping in here you dumbest statement?
The same world where you are in support of forced vaccines that are killing people and giving them long term health issues.
I don’t understand the outrage. Lufthansa gate agents “were just following orders”
+1
There is following orders and there is making orders
Are those drawn weapons absolutely necessary?
What are they afraid of, that Jews will try to escape Germany ?
I grew up with grandparents who survived Aushwitz and always heard about their fear of German soldiers. Got to admit that I was more than a bit nervous to be on German soil for my first time. When I got to the gate and saw all those Police (Politzei) with massive guns it kind of brought me back to the stories I heard and I was a bit traumatized. It got worse when I realized that they were there to stop me from rightfully getting on my flight out of Germany.
Sad 🙁
I had grandparents in the camps as well. I don’t fear them one iota. In fact I would have loved to violate the nazi post war laws and the Germans can try to arrest me. It would be a PR nightmare. Big deal to spend some time as a Jewish political prisoner for a few days to prove a point
Isaac, but the thing you don’t know is if you actually would leave that prison. Do you really want to start another multi million dollar “free the prisoner” campaign? Aren’t there enough fundraising campaigns of people dying without a penny of life insurance?
A couple of years ago I attended a Yom Kippur prayer at the Munich biggest synagogue. A German policeman was at the gate, a submachine gun ready in his hands. I couldn’t avoid thinking:”your dad was trying to kill my dad, but you, his son, are trying to protect me (from Islamic meshuges…)”. What a strange world.
No, but I wouldn’t read into it too much. The purpose of heavily-armed cops like this is simply to respond to a serious incident (i.e. a terrorist attack) in very short order. The fact they had them out had nothing to do with what has happening.
That said, the optics weren’t great.
Terrible. I hope the passengers sue them even though it can be costly.
If someone involved arranges, I’d donate to a go fund me to sue and go after Lufthansa
Every time I flew Lufthansa in the past I felt and experienced anti Semitism from the airline
Yet you continued to give them your business. OKAY.
Who says I continued to give them
Business? I took 2 round trips when I was single and I wasn’t booking my own flights nor Paying for it.
Well,thats not my experience,and I used them over 10 times.
Lufthansa will soon realize that all of the top law firms have at least one Jewish partner.
A Jewish partner who considers himself jewish because he ate gefilte fish a few years ago with his dying grandmother for one night of Pesach. My friend, these types of Jews are married to goyim and have little to do with Judaism. Just like our President of Ukraine “friend”.
And just like our VP’s spouse
Im 100% jewish,and i dont want anything to do with the likes of you.And im not married to a non jew.And if you dont want to be called a kike,or a yid,dont use the term goy.
The term “goy” literally means people, as in the French, Irish, Italian, et al.
The Torah itself uses that word, telling Rivka Imeinu that she has two “goyim” (Yaakov and Eisav) in her womb, one of those a reference to the *Jewish* people!
There is nothing offensive about that word “goy”.
We dont live in the torah times,it seems you are not aware.Now its offendive,specially in the way he used it.
I agree 100pct with Ariel. There is a lack of derekh eretz amongst many of our coreligionists who one might think should know better given that they wear their sect on their sleeves so to speak. For the record, i have had excellent experiences with Lufthansa and have flown many times.
No it’s not. You just don’t know Hebrew and you seem not to know much about Judaism. PS we are eternally in Torah times because the Torah is the law. It didn’t vanish with the “German” “enlightenment”.
I know hebrew well,im israeli and i know enough of judaism.I know your mind is still in antiwuity,in torah times,but thankfully,we left tjose times slready,at least us,the non ayatollah jews.My dear,for the vast majority of jews in the world,torah is irrelevant,just the ayatollahs still care.And in the meantime,cause pain and misery to the rest of us.The jewish khomeinys.Funny,somebody that says that i dont know hebrew,uses a nickname Hulda,lol
Israel has had its share of bad apples historically and in modern times as well. People like you have been described in the Torah.
No point in fighting with you, I’m sure you get off on baiting people.
I fully agree,your lot are bad apples,thats why nobody likes you.Time to open new books,mr fundamentalist.
The word “Hulda” in Hebrew means “rat”. What a terrible name for a woman!
Hulda, I know Hebrew better than your rabbis who continue to live by their Yiddish. We in Israel don’t live by the Torah, nor we want to. Aren’t you a bit… primitive?
I’ll second that.
Putin is reminding everyone that we aren’t that far from world war 2.
Germany is feeling left out. They are attempting the same.
You’re a sad excuse of a human being
Lufthansa is in general a disgrace the last few months. As most passengers got denied without any evidence, they should be entitled for compensation under EU261, which would also make Lufthansa responsible for any fees paid for booking a new trip. If you need a good lawyer within Germany, Dr. Böse (twitter @dr_boese) is pretty good – had several cases with him against Lufthansa group airlines. Maybe it’s better to sue them in the states, if you want more money, but lawyers and court fees are less expensive in Germany.
contingency
@Dan, I notice in the picture you posted with the people davening in the back, there are two (apparently) non-Jews sitting with their masks not covering their noses. Curious to know if they were ever approached and if they were on the connecting flight.
Also, I’m not sure why German antisemitism is breaking news… Just because they have laws that say you can’t call them out on it it doesn’t mean they’re any different from their parents and grandparents.
I notice this too
Your making me go back and look at those pictures
And you think it is just coincidence?
Friends don’t let friends fly Lufthansa
Ha!
We are rapidly adding airlines to this list. 🙁
First experience with German Antisemitism was in 1986 when transiting through Frankfurt. Always weary flying through there since. Had “extra security screening” a few times.
My first experience with German anti-semitism was in 1944, when my grandfather saw his father shot in front of him in Bergen Belsen.
We are in 2022,not 1944…In case you havent noticed
Funny,the americans must be antsemites too,they allways make trouble for me when i used to travel there
These people can get rich!
They clearly already are since they were booking new flights immediately afterwards haha
Yeah they are. They flew first class.
and dominate the Rhineland (?Mein Kampf?)
Dan,
Awesome piece of reporting. Thank you for the obvious hours you invested to get the whole story.
This is horrifying as you say.
I am surprised that it didn’t get any coverage here in Israel. Seems an official reprimand would be the least Israel could do even though it wasn’t a flight from Israel.
Pressure on United and other Star Alliance partners an option?
Well said
Thanks.
Germany is a friendly country and nobody is going to cause trouble with a big ally for the sake of some undesirables who are probably not even israeli citizens.Also,thankfully,charedi parties are out of the govermment.
OUTRAGEOUS! I will avoid Lufthansa in the future
This is disgusting. I can’t believe the airline, the airport and the police behaved in such a manner to any passengers, but it’s especially galling to behave that way to Jews in a German airport on a German airline! Just zero sense of awareness of the world around them.
I am not a Jew, nor am I an international traveler, nor do I have any connection with Germany aside from some very distant ancestors – so I like to think I’m a somewhat impartial viewer of this situation, and I am sickened by the actions by Lufthansa.
I hope this results in a lawsuit. Useless PR drivel from an airline is fine when your bags are lost or a flight is cancelled due to a mechanical issue. It’s absolutely not a response for racially discriminating against paying customers for the behavior of a few individuals.
Finally, the officer being incensed by being called a Nazi? Yeah buddy – when you’re a German police officer and you’re grouping Jews up to make baseless accusations, you’re well on your way to being one of them. Don’t want be called a Nazi? Don’t act like one.
Add to that, he advanced towards them with his hand on a loaded rifle just for being called a name. If that’s noy peak fascism, I don’t know what is.
Honestly, it wasn’t a good move. Imagine if an African American police officer was behaving in a mannerism or helping enforce an action which was believed to be wrong, and people would call him the American version of the N word. It would be a highly incorrect move.
I’ve been mistreated by various different airlines and security officers over the years (and yes, sometimes for being Jewish or chareidi), as I’m sure were plenty of people here. I know @Dan certainly has his share of travel horror stories. I wouldn’t call anyone who mistreated me a Nazi, though. That would be disrespectful to all those who actually did experience Nazi treatment. There’s wrong, and then there’s the absolute epitome of barbarism and evil. We don’t want to cheapen and minimize who the Nazis were by calling the terminology into play every time we experience anti semitism, even if it is by those of Germanic lineage.
+1. The person saying was actually booed by the surrounding yidden for using that word.
These are not many people these are German people discriminating against Jews they are the original Nazis and deserved every title as such
Really? Your logic and syntax explanation are puzzling. If you wan to pinpoint respect for those who experienced treatment by the nazis, it is entirely appropriate to call a similarly misbehaving German a nazi, as that person is harking back to historical national behavior that is well documented.
“Who called me a Nazi? Tell me right now or I’ll shoot each one of you until you give them up!”
(Only part of that is satire)
Precisely. His “Who said that?”, made think he’d round them all up and summarily execute them for a statement of one.
+1000000
My mistake somehow. The above was meant as a reply to a different comment
Well put!
This sounds horrible and Lufthansa should be investigated.
Chillul HaShem is also a horrible crime and I hope the passengers didn’t fight with the crew about masks. Halacha is clear that even if the flight attendants are in the wrong you’re still allowed to also create chillul haShem.
not allowed!
Curse my dyslexia. Thank you for correcting me.
There is never an excuse for creating a cillul haShem
Standing up for Jews punished collectively for being Jewish
Is A kiddish Hashem not a chiul
Please re-read my whole comment
100% on the nail
Excuse me, chilul Hashem is between yidden and not goyim please know the game. Learn the rules.
The tone of your response is interesting and your reply is confusing. It was in front of a whole flight of yidden, so even according to your alternative view of hallacha it’s a chillul haShem.
How can this surprise anyone?? They have NEVER liked us. Open your eyes people
True
They might not like you,but they surely like us.Big news,the rest of the jews,dont like your kind either.
Oh god. This gave me at first a small laugh. I have heard this, that the Hassidic are v unpopular with other Jews. I think this could be because they demand special treatment or concessions in Israel and look down on non Hassicic Jews? Which of course they shouldn’t. Its all a mess. Human complexities. I really don’t know what to say. So perhaps I should shutup. But this nightmare for ANY Jews totally horrifed me. I’m not Jewish, Irish Australian. The ignorance and blatant prejudice of the Germans here is astounding. Gobsmacking. I mean, how do they think they could get away with it? Yeah, they are stupid, a nation of damn lemmings, cowards, still ‘just following orders’, even though those orders are shocking/appalling. They have a problem standing up to authority, when authority is in the wrong, it takes great courage. But now, those employees endure suspension. My mind is just in so much shock at this. I would love to know who the Captain ( pilot) was who started all this fracas off. If only the gate ‘keepers’ had ignored it all and let the Jewish people straight onto the flight, standing up to the pilot and the other order givers. What would have happened? Certainly not shooting by those horrendous weapons being aimed at unarmed defenceless people. (Would the pilot jumped up and down in fury and thrown them off?)I know that’s what I would have done, calling their ‘bluff’ sort of. Daring ‘authority’ to react. I would have walked them onto the plane. Past flight attendants frothing at the mouth in idiocy. I would have lost my job ( temporarily maybe ) but couldn’t give a damn. But I’m known for standing up when wrong doing is occurring by ‘authority’. Lost a job through it. I’m a nurse who reported another nurse for blatant cruelty. I hope Luthansa pays bigtime for this. I’ve been told by friends not to fly Luthansa, that they are stupid blockheads who can’t get out of the box and we’re not Jews. Though I have adored Jewish friends. God help us all.
It’s crucial that our public figures and people like Dan (who have the ability to raise awareness to the public) get to the bottom of what happened and if it is what it seems like it is…. then Lufthansa needs to be sued to such an extent that they feel the pain!!!
We must fight back!!!!!!!
Thanks Dan!!!!!
This isn’t just a German problem.
Did you all forget when the mayor of NYC called out “The Jewish Community” live on TV??
I used to think I had enough gentile friends that would defend me in a future Holocaust.
Then I saw how fast they went to spreading this antisemitic propaganda, and if I now came to them for help, they’d all say “but you guys are spreading diseases!”
Shuls are getting burned down across America this year and the world is silent!
Which shuls are being burned down?! Jews are growing into their communities and building entire new ones more than ever. And yes, antisemitism also continues to be a huge problem.
There have been a spate of shuls burned down this year, mostly Chabad. At least some have been linked to arson.
Did you forget that the former mayor is actually German?
Well when your “faith” promotes the idea of entitlement and that you are better than everyone else, don’t expect anyone to defend you.
Wow, another anti-Semitic comment. Our faith promotes responsibility, not entitlement. And we have more responsibility than the rest of the world to be G-dly representatives, which makes us more scrutinized, but better? I wish!
“Bobe Mayses”…
Yeah, well said.
Seems someone feels sense of entitlement here lol! Also it might be a good idea not to flaunt your foolishness. Go educate yourself and then do a reality check.
Is that you, Adolph?
Hahahaha.
Oh God. Don’t ALL faiths think they are better than everyone else? (Except maybe not Buddhists. Or Bahais.) It’s a bit of a middle eastern faith origin thing. What a shocker of a comment.
The behaviour of many Hassidic communities and their rabbi-leaders during the corona, was a disgrace. Little wonder they were singled out be the NY meyer. I remember how they behaved in Israel during the worst times of the corona pandemic. They defied regulations of the Health Ministry, but 90% of the hospitalized cases were Hassidic Jews, and their required to be trated! A rare combination of stupidity with “Khutzpe”.
Hmmm, yeah. But they paid the price by much more illness and deaths likely. They do not much move out of their close community. For which they bear responsibility, as it seems they probably knew they would endure much more sickness/deaths as a result. Or thought they were ‘immune by faith’ or something. Only to discover they weren’t ! A lesson learned? One hopes.
Omg.
I was on a earlier flight the previous day from Frankfurt to Budapest LH1338 I already noticed then that the crew was hostile towards the Jews…
Amazing, though not in a good way. You did way more work trying to find info than I have, given I am just reading and watching what you posted. But it kinda sounds like one lower-level guy’s decision to try to make things tough for some people spiraled out of control. From my own interactions with any form bureaucracy and security, miscommunication is almost a surety. My guess, some few people who may have not worn masks were supposed to be target, but whoever received the call at the airport to make a police presence ready went overboard or misunderstood the scope of that they were supposed to do. I’ll bet they were told to look for a group of Hasidic Jews who weren’t following the rules, but when the security guys showed up, they saw way more than a few but didn’t have specific enough information on who to detain. So, they cast a wide net and made a huge mess of things for a mask violation. Hopefully it’s not actually anti-Semitism because that would mean things are way worse than I believe they are around the world.
Pilots have a big say in matters like these, even anti-Semitic ones. (And it isn’t a mitzvah to be them dan lkaf zchus.)
It was anti Semitic, especially by the originator of this horror, the pilot.
Dan, great job in piecing together the entire story. You would make a great investigative reporter.
🙂
Excellent article. Really well structured and researched, with personal interviews, and extensive video footage. This is almost enough for a trial exhibition.
Thanks 🙂
If Dan had a news website, I’d be on it daily. He is the most reliable (and helpful) source of info out there.
Stop flying with German airlines…
Several years ago my son, who has a blatantly Jewish first (Moses)and last name, was flying through Paris. When he boarded the Delta flight the agent causally remarked you can’t get a more Jewish name then that. Apparently the Europeans have different standards of anti-Semitism.
Not to make light of Lufthansa’s behavior, or Delta’s, All in the Family addressed “Jewish names” back in the day (start around 12:54):
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5v0yol
Once at passport check in NY, the agent asked about my wife’s legal name (which few people even know), “What kind of Jewish name is that?”. The passport agent was a frum Yid.
I mean, your just called your own son blatantly Jewish, tho?
I’d say this is unbelievable, but it’s entirely believable.
Please keep us posted on developments as LH inevitably tries to do damage control over the coming days.
It’s weird that they were banned from LH for 24 hours but were allowed to fly other airlines that are part of the Lufthansa group.
Thank you for posting facts and not clickbait. Anyone who was not allowed to board should despute the entire trip with their credit card company (if they paid by cash instead of miles). They paid to get to Budapest – not to Frankfurt. Obviously, if they weren’t wearing a mask, it’s a different story. But I see this as a slam dunk credit card dispute.
Wow, thank you Dan for giving a thoroughly investigative story. This is really outrageous. That GIF with the officer beckoning with his finger says it all. I’m sure modern-day Germans don’t want to be lumped in with their recent ancestors’ atrocities, but they have no problem lumping a group of Jews? They need to learn respect and reverence for ancient traditions.
A lawsuit and article are completely insufficient.
This needs to be condemned by American and Israeli embassadors to Germany at minimum.
+1
Would never fly through Germany even on another airline. Didn’t let my son either on the way to E”Y after Pesach. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
THE HASIDIC KIND IF ALWAYS SO ANGRY. As if non-compliance with FAA regulations and airline rules were optional. Had they been decent, they would have been allowed onward to their connecting flights
read the article or did what LH did go straight for the hate?
And the anti-semite kind are always blaming whole groups.
Well, this is typical.
(Also, curious what FAA regulations you believe [every Jew onboard] somehow broke in tandem).
“kind,” “they”. You meant the Hasidic sub-kind vs. your Obere Rasse?
I’m trying to imagine if this would happen to a group of blacks, how they wouldn’t be the “SO ANGRY KIND”. There would be riots all across the country, probably some shootings and many ‘lootings’.
I’ve seen plenty of non compliance by non-jews and those scenes were definitely much more of the “angry kind”. The shouting, the cursing…it was embarrassing to watch.
Good grief. Shocker. ‘ Decent? How were they not decent? Drunk and raucous? Vile and rude? Only a v small number had required to be reminded about mask rules on the 1st flight. To which they complied.
Why don’t hundreds and hundreds flood their call center with calls telling them this was unacceptable and tying up their resources.
Should not be flying with Lufthansa or giving them any business anyway.
If you‘ve enough time, do it. Lufthansa call center queue is approx. 1-3 hours on good days, half a day on longer days to get thru. System cancels calls after 3 hours waiting in line.
Why would anyone book a flight to Budapest to begin with? It’s still very far from Bodrogkeresztúr. If they booked flights to Košice via Vienna or Warsaw they would be there an hour after landing.
Some people just need to buy an atlas first…
When this group was booked there were no flights to Košice, and even if yes they were supposed to arrive in BUD hours before the KSC flight
The KSC flight was only there at that time with a bigger aircraft because it had another group from NY on is
Comments are fire
That video with the female officer speaks volumes. This is blatant prejudice behavior. Lufthansa should be punished severely. They must make good to all of these victims.
This story is pretty disgusting to digest, I hope all passengers denied boarding their flights because they were just in the “Jewish group” are compensated the fullest. But I think some of the readers commenting here need to grow up a bit.
Roche Freedman LLP, a firm specializing in class actions, is investigating this incident. If you were on the flight, and have information, please contact us. Contact@rochefreedman.com
@dan is this verified?
Yes, safe to contact them.
Haha, said JJ.
But yes that’s a more than legit firm and the partner is a brilliant litigator.
My aunt, who interviewed most top judges and lawyers RBG etc told me she was absolutely blown away at how brilliant vel is.
Maybe add it to the post?
3 words
Bring Back Trump
Dan – do you think it’s smart to not dress visibly Jewish when traveling after these recent incidents?
I am a secular jew and today was about to book a return business class ticket to dubai with lufthansa from US. I will no longer support Lufthansa due to this and will find alternate airlines to get me there. This is not right. Makes me glad I live in America.
So nice that we are all one Jewish people
I am Christian, the Jewish people are my brothers and sisters. I will never fly this airline as well. Some of my best friends are Jewish, I would have walked off the plane with them.
Makes me superbly glad that I grew up in Israel, not in Poland or in America…sorry for that, but so it is.
Skoach Dan for the thorough investigation and solid factual reporting!
I had an anti-semetic incident happen to me with Lufthansa, haven’t and will never use them again. They’re the worst of the worst.
Let’s hope for a serious lawsuit and USDOT investigation, I hope this goes all out without any settlement
Switch out the word Jew to a different race and color. The news media would be all over this. Disgusting
I don’t understand the stress on “not part of the group” … Why does it make sense that 75 people who used the same travel agent should get banned because of the other 5 who happened to be in that group?
@Dan, appreciate the time and energy you put into this and the other unfortunate incidents…
Because then they can say they banned the group and that was the common denominator instead of anti-Semitism.
As many people were not part of any group and were still banned, the airline can’t just blame the ban on the group.
Last time I flew Lufthansa was in 2010 on a way back from Florence to Tel Aviv, as they had much better times vs. other airlines. The ground staff in Germany and the crew onboard the TLV leg were so nasty, and clearly antisemitic, I swore to myself this would be the last time.
That goes to show you that better times are not the measure of an airline.
Eisuv Soine L’Yaakov.
Their Hatred is coming out now. They finally found a good reason to hate us. It’s called COVID 19. We are the source to their problems. Everything is the JEWS.
If people think that in 2022 another Holocaust Can’t happen. Well, read history.
In the 1920’s jews got treated very nice in Germany, and there is where the worst has happened.
You also need to learn the Torah, not just quote random maamarei Chazal, to learn when those quotes are or are not applicable.
Right observation it is. Makes me often think of the USA in the same context.
The whole story is nauseating.
Nothing from these people should surprise you though. They’ve been persecuting our nation for almost a thousand years. Beginning with the First Crusade through the Black Death and ending with the Holocaust(with a whole lot in between) millions have been slaughtered. Not to mention the frequent discrimination, pogroms and occasional expulsions.
Non Jew. I have always considered Jewish people as God’s chosen. Not so sure about the God part anymore, but certainly the entire world has been blessed by Jewish people. Amazing, just looking at the scientific achievements for one. Thank you!
Then I see some of these comments.
Nothing from THESE people should surprise you though. THEY’VE been persecuting our nation for almost a thousand years.
Lumping everyone together, just like the airline did. These comments are also disgusting. I wonder if it is this them versus us attitude is what causes some of this.
Thankyou for waking me up to your anti-gentile hatred and discrimination. It has been enlightening.
Your comment seems to imply broad conclusions based on SOME of the comments finally awaking you to find reason as to “what causes some of this.” Lumping everyone together. Perhaps now you’ll be enlightened to understand some of the causes why Nazis killed Jews, at least some of them killing some of them.
Hey, don’t lump then all together
I don’t know what you’re referring to, but it seems like you’re confusing hatred towards anti-Semitism with anti gentile. The former is what most e/o here is discussing.
You are too quick to draw conclusions. The Jews are just like all others, except that “where there are two Jews, there always will be at least three opinions” (a Jewish proverb). I have been living in Israel since the age of 2. However, after I had lived in the US for 3 years as a student, I do believe that there is a general baseline of dislike towards Jews in the Christian world. Not always showing, but it is still there. it has become my conclusion, that if you don’t want to hear that you love money, and are responsible for most of world calamities, live at home (Israel), and not on a foreign land. It makes no difference what a Jew feels for a country in which he lives. He always will be treated like a foreigner.
Any way to ban the Nazi airline from landing at JFK? With all the laws we have on the books, I imagine there’s something about collective punishment against Americans by German pigs.
Thanks Lufthansa for continuing the works of Hitler.
I don’t think ElAl is anything better
????? Totally not true.
Thanks, Dan, for a very well researched story. Terrible news and I hope they get sued badly.
You wrote that it “seems to have been anti-Semitic”??? It doesn’t seem to be, it’s obviously screaming and glaring blatant anti Semitism.
And the woman in that last video is outright lying when she says it would be no difference if it were Africans because not even 10 dozen police would be able to stop the rioting that would break out, so they wouldn’t dare try this on Africans. They knew that we Jews would never riot so they had zero fear to act in this despicable manner and only stationed a dozen or two police, just in case.
Nothing like some good ol racism to make your anti semitism argument for.
Serious question here. If a large family already has tickets booked to fly via Lufthansa to TLV this summer – should they re-consider? I hear all the comments…the prices were too good to pass up…unless there’s some miracle – not sure those prices will be available on other airlines…
Thanks DD readership
Don’t buy tickets with Lufthansa. Just imagine what any of their 6 million victims would say to you if they heard that you were considering it.
From the world of truth, you really think they would tell you to bear a grudge on the fourth generation or so descendants of those Germans of WW II?
Just fly with them. Be polite and all will go well.
If money is more important to you than your dignity and worth as a human being then you have made your decision. To you LH may not be the hill to die on but you have to ask yourself where you draw the line as a Jew.
Someone bring this to the attention of thr FAA. Lufthansa should be disciplined and held accountable, not just through thr court systems but also by other nations. I’d also bring it to the attention of thr Israeli Civil Aviation Administration.
Even if they win a lawsuit, if Lufthansa isn’t held accountable in the eye of the public things like this can continue to happen
I’d like to point out that in many of the mask incidents within the US-48 airlines did the same- punished a group for the sins of one. If one 2 year old wasn’t wearing a mask, on what grounds were the whole family deplaned? Why not let one mask-abiding parent fly with the remaining mask-abiding kids?
Not exactly. An entire family is not the same thing as passengers who are completely unrelated and happen to be of one faith.
Nonsense.
1. Most families don’t want to split up, so if one person is kicked off, they all leave on their own volition.
2. Even if an entire family or group is kicked off, the common denominator is that they are a family or group. Kicking off everyone because of their common race or religion is a very different story.
Of course, what LH did was way worse. Apples and oranges. My point was simply that in many mask incidents we had people being punished collectively for the sins of one. Parents were never given the option of splitting up.
If Lufthansa had only kicked out the people on the same group or record locator, this would be a non-story. It may not be fair, but it’s somewhat understandable.
What made this a story was going after everyone by race/religion for collective punishment.
Thank you for the tenacity to research this story. It is truly appalling and yasher koach to you.
I was on this flight, thanks for bringing attention to this horrible story
Reading this article (well written by the way) makes my blood boil. I hope you have much safer and more enjoyable travels in the future.
Of course it’s antisemitism. Germans still believe in the Aryan race and look down at anyone who are not part of that race. Due to the Germans wanting to be part of the world, they “allow” the government to be pro refugees etc. However, there sentiment at large is anti anyone not German and hating the Jews who blame them for something their grandparents did (and in their minds, they had nothing to do with it).
I knew my great grandfather who survived the Natzis hospitality he would not be surprised neither should we. Boycotting Lufthansa should just be the start.
how do we get this on all local (USA/north America) media? Jewish and non…
Send them the link to this article.
I will never fly Lufthansa and will try to spread this story in as many ways as possible so that others do the same. Shame on you Lufthansa! Shame on you!
State of Israel needs to ban all FRA/MUC-TLV flights immediately to teach these anti semite rats a lesson
As the news stories constantly show us, the State of Israel hates Chareidim even more than do these Germans.
It is simply because the Hareidim treat us, the secular Jews, as being their dogs. It is as simple as that.
People who flew Lufthansa in the last 2 years aren’t very shocked by this story.
What most of the world would consider bad, they consider just normal legitimate discrimination.
If anything good comes of this, it will be that Jews will engage in a bit of self policing, so that if someone flouts the rules in a way that can get others in trouble, he will be stared down until he complies.
Yes, we really need a few good kapos
@dan what about complaining to FAA or some other American government department, as the flight originated out of USA and Lufthansa does business in the USA.
By all means, everyone should do what they can to spread this information.
But the German People are so cultured!
Fool me once…
I don’t mean to defend the Germans, but in all honesty, the Police had no idea what actually happened. They were just responding to Lufthansas claims. I think the blame here is ONLY on Lufthansa and NOT on the police. No?
Yeah. The police were just following orders…
No. They should’ve stood up for what was right and not “ just follow the orders”.
I think you missed my point
You are absolutely correct! The police responded to a call from Lufthansa. The police were not the people who decided to ban anybody from the flight. The same happens here, whenever an airline calls for the police to be at the gate. As far as the policeman carrying a machine gun at the gate goes, if you’ve ever been to European airports, you have surely seen police armed with such weapons. It’s not like somebody told him, “hey Fritz! We have some uppity Jews at gate 3, bring some automatic weapons!” – ridiculous!
If one wants to call anybody racists or Nazis, one should direct that at the Lufthansa officials, not the police. In watching the police in the video, I don’t see that they did anything wrong at all.
…and yes, I’m also Jewish, and yes my grandfather’s entire family was butchered during the progroms, in White Russia.
As for nonsense comments about “forced vaccinations killing people” goes, please just stay locked up in your home, watching Fox News. More than likely you’re the type of person that can’t be bothered with the common courtesy of correctly wearing a mask on a flight; and who tends to be the trigger for such unfortunate events as this.
Quality journalism at it’s finest. Thank you Dan for putting in the work
I didn’t read all of this posts as its way too long. Just stay away from Eisav. Dan stop offering deals of Nazi airlines and cause an uproar and scream why don’t they like us, etc. Im getting my big Jew lawyer to sue sue sue. Uchhhh, so disgusting how we act. Putting on teffilfin and davening in the aisles, huge sthreimel boxes , carry on food, demanding upgrades and special treatments , all the thing we do annoy everyone and it sticks out way too much as an annoying passenger. Germans of all people are mesudar in everything they do like how they killed millions and wrote it all down, rtc. They hate us before hand too. We’re in Golus and we don’t get what everyone else gets, get used it and act smart. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. We are way too much in peoples faces everywhere. Simply put , we don’t have the same rights and we shouldn’t expect it either. sorry folks , I’m the last one on earth to defend Germans, just stay away – there are enough airlines out there.
You suggest we don’t put on tefillin on flights?
Should we also fly on shabbos if plane is delayed?
We should fast on flights because they don’t accommodate kosher ?
Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L paskened that it’s 100% permissible to daven without a minyan on an airplane and you should daven while in your seat.
That’s wasn’t the point. He said put on tefillin .
Never heard of a psak of not putting on tefillin
You are correct. It seemed that he was lumping the 2 together of putting on tefillin and davening with them in the aisles.
I think you stopped reading in Kindergarten because the words were too long. You hear something from your Rebbi and as you say in Yiddish, you “Mish Tzeim Hoidi and Kish” (mix two completely different things together).
Those who were on the flight and affected should be reaching out to the offices of their State Senators and local Congressmen. In particular Congressman Chris Smith takes a particular interest in antisemitism. Someone with close ties to his office has offered to connect any passengers from his district (Lakewood, NJ and surrounding areas) with his staff. I can set up an email address for this purpose if there is interest.
The Wiesenthal Center can be helpful as well and the information can be forwarded to the appropriate people in that organization as well.
Lufthansa is clearly in the wrong. It’s not that companies are or aren’t anti semitec. Many are just prudent business people who realize its not fiscally responsible to be openly anti semitec.
But next, lets discuss what we learned in day camp. At least in CGI etc
When you dress as a Jew, understand that your actions reflect on all frum Jews and on all Jews in general.
Don’t wear a big yarmulka and be a total douche.
I’m not passing blame, I’m simply pointing out that society does lump together.
@Dan I think that by now you have to agree tat it’s possible for an airline to be worse then Spirit.
I wonder if they looked at who ordered kosher food
Speaking of Kosher food…on the return flight they served the Kosher customers a frozen Quinoa salad for lunch and an apple and banana for dinner. And YES we all ordered kosher meals.
They must have run out of potato skin soup
Thanks @dan, noone does this better then you!!
only thing i feel the need to mention is how comfortable were getting by having over 100 ppl put on tallis and teffillin openly in the capital of NAZI Germany…
it seems we give them too much credit as if they are humane creatures
nothing changed EISAV SONEI ES YAAKOV!!!!!1
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
Why are those employees holding rifles with their fingers on the trigger? Are the Jews such a threat?
If you’re talking about the policeman holding the machine gun, he’s specifically making an effort to keep his finger OFF of the trigger. Having seen other police, and US soldiers on the news, holding their weapons in the exact same manner, I assume that it is the correct stance that they learn in training.
These firearms are standard equipment for airport patrols.
I have flown LH business class in the height of Covid, as a clean shaven guy wearing a cap, I had no issues not wearing my mask the whole time and they didn’t say a word.
With a razor or a shaver?
Oh how I wish they would’ve handed out gas masks to my grandparents 80 years ago…….and forced them to keep it on!
The chimneys in Auschwitz are still smoking….
Right. Denying Jews the right to fly for 24 hours is exactly the same as the Auschwitz chimneys…
The same old Germany, they try to show the world how they’ve changed since WWII, they’re the same pieces of SH… They always where, F Germany
You language is also not the Yiddish way…..
The Yiddish language equivalents are scheiss and shtoop. If Jews didn’t use those words, they would not be in Yiddish.
Im sad to say that my Jewish brothers are wrong here to try and fight with gentiles with claims of discrimination and anti Semitism. Duh, of course it its anti Semitism. duh of course they hate us in 2022 and in 1722 and since they days of Esav.
The fact that some dummies are surprised by this, shows ignorance of the basic belief that we are in exile, and the gentiles are doing EXACTLY what they’re supposed to do until Mashiach comes. For those that are surprised by this, I really question your faith in Mashiach, and your belief in the fact that we are still in exile. And in turn I also question your belief in other basic principle of Judaism.
You cant have it both ways. You cant think that you are not allowed to be treated the way Jews are supposed to be treated in exile and also think your religious, and call yourself FRUM!!
And a message to the guy who was yelling at the German police that their grandparents would be proud: Of course they’re proud! Not only their grandparents but they own kids are proud. The only thing you accomplished with those stupid comments was raising they’re ire are giving them more reasons to go hurt the next Jew.
Thank you very much for next time a German cop hurts a fellow Jew..
I’ll finish your tirade for you:
“Iran are tzadikim and the tzionim are reshoim and in galus we’re supposed to be “baring our necks” so they have an easier time chopping off our heads…..”
And Ill add to Chaim. What would you do if someone you could easily punch in the face called you a Nazi?
Yes you can. That’s what the prophets did, and they were prophets (see into the future).
Few years ago, My sons flew Air Berlin (TLV to JFK) and vendors refused to sell them bottled water. Yes, they are antisemites! On the other hand, we need to be more vigilant and call no attention to “our race” when traveling. I was racially profiled and banned from flying “United”last summer.
Sickening.
File a complaint:
https://forms.ny.gov/s3/nysdhrcomplaint
They don’t want to be called Nazis? Fine, I’ll call them jerks. I’ll leave their punishment to God but NO WAY am I EVER flying them agian, I don’t care what they offer or settle.
Do you see the other people not wearing masks in the photo? What lying hypocrites.
File a complaint to the AG:
https://formsnym.ag.ny.gov/OAGOnlineSubmissionForm/faces/OAGCRBHome;jsessionid=wWKlKpn_gjZUWYTRVBPqV5lRFS5geQ29YO2_Bp_TyRsWxuNGCZyI!795152577
No surprises here, did you think that a nation that killed 6 million Jews all of a sudden loves you? They are just being a little more transparent in this instance. Stay away from Germany, German items and German services as much as possible.
Can we take a moment now to pray, really pray, for the Final Redemption? Deep down, we all know it’s the ONLY solution. Sue them? Boycott them? All good ideas, but until Mashiach arrives, we’re going to be living the Eisav soneh lYakov rule. So sad, but that’s galus, friends.
exactly! and amen!
YES!!!
Truly outrageous. If true, my take:
1. Im hoping that the airline wanted to ban just the people responsible for any misbehavior, but were unable to identify them so punished 150 people. Truly an unwise, probably illegal and perhaps wicked, decision on their part, but it would be better than the alternative conclusion that they decided to punish all ze Juden for the transgression of one.
2. If there were misbehaving people dressed as religious Jews, then they also bear responsibility for this chilul Hashem. Ita a fine line to not be victim blaming, but you have to realize that the human mind is built to group ideas together. If you only encounter green candies that taste sour, then you might begin to dislike green candies. I’ve encountered my fair share of chassidic people who refuse to wear masks under any circumstances – almost with a religious fervor.
3. The airline’s claim that the decision was made by the pilot rings hollow. If so, why were Jews banned from boarding other flights for 24 hours. Instead, it sounds like a decision made by upper management to teach ze Juden a lesson. Its obvious why they would want to limit the accountability to a single pilot, but a lawsuit may find otherwise in discovery.
4. If the details of a lawsuit (including discovery) become public knowledge, I believe this would cause lasting brand damage to the airline. This may unfortunately cause the airline to offer a settlement. But the end goal of the lawsuit ought to be that the people accountable for this decision ought to be made known. If I were a member of the lawsuit, I would insist on pursuing this through trial, regardless of any monetary settlement offers.
i commend those germans. very ehrlich. they realize it has nothing to do with the masks and individuals. exceptionally honest. thank heavens not all gentiles are so bright.
I suggest a Permanent boycott of Lufthansa as well as the Class Action
Ive flown with lufthansa between nyc and tlv in business a couple of times and didn’t try to hide my Judaism at all and had great experience- even with bringing a kid in J
I’m sure there are many others like me … naturally the ones who had issues are more vocal
I think this might be partly or mostly similar to mask enforcement in general….meaning it depends on the specific crew of that flight and not the airline in general and any punitive action should be more directed to the specific crew members that were involved
I think it’s silly to blame/ ban the entire airline for the actions of a few bad stories
Kids don’t belong in J. Period.
When you drop the first 3 letters of your name, your opinion will automatically do a 360. Try it.
So what are the 100% medically necessary mask laws now?
Can someone please make a flow chart?
trying to imagine that covid being 80 years ago and the nazis enforcing the LAW of wearing masks on the way to the gas chambers, that is exactly how the germans operate…..
Why are Jewish people flying a German airline???
Six millions in the ovens isn’t proof enough of their hatred of Jews
No YID SHOULD SET FOOT IB GMERNANX OR FLY A GERMAB AIRLINE WE SAY HEVER AGAIN YOU WRE SPILLING JEOSH BLOOD
SHAME SHAME MAYBE REB SHAYLA VEN REB MOISHE WAS SENDING message from gan eiden
The price was right.
Epic
Judy, will you just not?
What about Ukraine? What about all the countries that denied Jews the right to escape to their respective countries during WW II? Are those airlines not also worthy of boycotting for their hatred of Jews?
They proved every single German is responsible for what the Nazis did. Never forgive never forget.
How can 25 people prove that millions of people are responsible for what people did 80 years ago??
Thank you.
Disgusting, atrocious, chilling, horrifying. Words alone cannot capture the feeling of these people. It is my perpetual nightmare to be stuck in Germany at the mercy of their police for doing nothing whatsoever.
I cannot fathom the utter helplessness of being told by German police that Jews from JFK are causing a problem, and there is nothing they could do about that. Immediately after throwing up I’d be on the first *AMERICAN* airline out of the sick country responsible for the murder of my grandparents under the guise of “following orders”. Honestly, I’d want to be out of Europe altogether.
Germany, you haven’t changed.
I really don’t understand how a frum person can fly Lufthansa after this.
Wear a cap.
IIRC anti-Semitism is a crime in Germany.
The victims should file a police report against the airline/captain/CEO and the local airport police
They supposedly take these ani semitism cases seriously
Do you have a link to the law? This is a very interesting option
This is very painful to read
I had a similar incident about 10 years ago in Austria where they were clearly discriminating against Jews during our connecting flight to/from Israel and US. Till today, I refuse to fly to any country that persecuted our grandparents during the holocaust.
What about British Airways? Iberia? TAP? Air France? Lots of countries have bad histories.
True, most countries in the world have at some point persecuted Jews. I’m referring to more recent history. Austria, Germany, Ukraine, Poland, Russia…
Despite the ugly antisemitic incident, it should be said loud and clear:
Chasidim should once and for all realize what chillul Hashem they create on almost every flight they are on as a group.
They are disobeying the rules, they are rude, they somehow assume that it is ok to block the air plain passages for a minyan.
In fact, it seem to me that the most antisemitic people in the world are working in El Al who transports chasidim regularly. Whose fault is that? Israel? El Al?
There is something totally selfish and insensitive in the way Chasidim act as a group.
That antisemitic treatment is a direct result of a misbehavior by a group. Your agony should not be on the inconvenience of missing a flight. It should be on the massive Chilul Hashem chasidim cause everywhere.
History lesson: The well mannered, educated pre war German Jews looked down on the poor uncouth Jews migrating to Germany from Eastern Europe and blamed the German hatred on the poor dirty cheder Jews who leach off society. I see things haven’t changed. I’m not justifying any behavior but the rush to blame those chassidim is sad.
Actually, what bothered them was the Jews who went shoulder-to-shoulder with them in high-society.
The Torah talks about this concept of the extreme danger, G-d Forbid, of assimilation, and gedolim of recent generations past, like the Brisker Rav and Rav Avigdor Miller have expounded on this.
And all Chaims are dumb.
I don’t think anyone should disparage Chaims, but they should realize that it’s their own actions that cause all the outrage against them.
You seam to work in LH, SHAME ON YOU
You seem to not know how to spell
unfortunately agree 🙁
So you suffer from one of the forms of antisemitism. I get you; the Lufthansa crew gets you too.
You should probably learn the definition of Chilul HaShem before defending the actions of the Nazis.
Here’s a question that should have you chasing your tail for a while. Do you support Neturei Karta? On the one hand they dress like Chasidim, but on the other they side with our enemies..
You should go work for Lufthansa, you’ll fit right in. https://apply.lufthansagroup.careers/index.php?
agree 100% – chassid on my flight rushed through the aisle to get off the plane bumping and pushing into everyone… just to get off 2 minutes earlier – all the while dragging his two young children. massive chilul hashem – not by all chassidim but by WAY TOO MANY
You are just like them, you saw A Chassid misbehaving, so all Chassidim are bad
What is the point of davening in the aisles? Rav Wosner paskened that one should remain in their seats and daven. Its funny how Chassidim are so makpid on mechitzas at weddings and social events, yet they have no issue clogging up the aisles on a plane and having shiktzas in front of their eyes.
There’s no mesora to be machmir on not davening on planes from the alte heim.
The Russian army and Marshal Zhukov taught them manners 80 years ago, with an assist from the RAF and the US Air Force.
Unfortunately the bastards surrendered before the atomic bomb was ready. Else an even better lesson would have been administered.
Apparently the lesson has worn out and it’s time for a refresher course. Too bad we insist on defending these jerks from Mr. Putin. He’d be an excellent teacher.
ps. Forgot to add, maybe something positive, Cousin Yishma’el is on the job!
First, I would want more information, including interviews with the Lufthansa staff working the flight from JFK before reaching any conclusions. However, in addition to the mask issue, I would be concerned about those blocking the aisles and emergency exists of the plane during flight, as that is a safety issue which should take precedence over collective prayer.
Blocking Emergency exists during flight is a serious safety issue. I mean maybe someone would need to jump out urgently.
It may be a problem, but I don’t think that should allow race banning.
This is another case of much antisemitism that we suffer while in golus.
However, as some have noted, (and it pains me so deeply to write this),
I am often embarrassed by the way a number of our tribe act on an airplane as if it is their personal house. This mainly includes walking around when told to be seated. Do you realize the chillul Hashem that you’re making? When a sheep is among 70 wolves, stay in your seat and you won’t be prey. I am not a self hating Jew, Adaraba, I care so much that it pains me to see the reactions of goyim when you do what you want when you shouldn’t.
Two points:
1 – It pains me as well. It pains all of us, but it’s not as common as you think. I travel frequently and most Jews behave with unusual courtesy and decency. It’s a small minority who don’t, but it’s not hard for anyone to see that most are very good people to have around.
2 – If you look around, you’ll notice that there are plenty of bad actors aboard public transportation. I’ve had every race, creed, gender, act up on planes in my 35 years of travelling. Rarely is their entire race judged on a collective basis as a result. I’ve seen grown men hurling obscenities at flight attendants, women yelling at the top of their lungs, teens acting loud and obnoxious, and much more.
We always need to be careful because of how much we stand out, but this isn’t about a few chassidim davening. It’s far deeper.
I think we all agree on this.
The point here is that it was most likely a small minority of Chasidim who didn’t behave (say 5)
There is no justification to ban 100 plus Chasidim for this; business class, premium Economy, etc.
I commute to Europe and like many Chassidim realize, LH is usually the best carrier for the trip (based on schedule, logistics of transfer and likelihood of making the transfer). Quite often there would be in economy a bunch of German middle level male travelers that would be, by all measures drunk. there would be stern warnings but I never saw repercussions.
Every passenger denied boarding needs to file an eu compensation claim. Overwhelm them with claims is one way to punish them.
That is not enough and might absolve LH of further responsibility.
Who’s them? EU compensation? Do they own LH? I think many people here are completely missing the point! I am not defending anyone and I got the chills through out the whole article but unfortunately also while reading the comments! It’s scary how people on both sides of the aisle are so quick to forget history on all accounts, don’t only remember the middle chapters of the Holocaust books you read, also read the beginnings , of how well accepted and entitled the oilom felt! Secure in college, business etc SO DON’T SCREAM SUE SUE SUE!! It doesn’t get the reaction you want! Doesn’t mean you have to be a punching back either, but something in the middle. Like mentioned above a sheep in a pack a wolves must attract zero attention for any chance of survival!! You are in galus after and if you won’t acknowledge it hashem will have to keep sending us reminders like this or C’V worse! You can get your upgrades and kosher meals but do it in a menchlich manner! I guarantee you it works 1000x more effective and faster.
Pinchas was a konai but only when the fight was Liman Hashem.
Let’s take a step back and ask ourselves are we really fighting like our grandparents would fight this fight, or are looking for a scape goat of a couple people that attracted to much attention for not wearing masks! (Which drive me crazy to, but…♂️)
I’m deeply horrified. We have here some guys who, just like the Lufthansa staff, categorize and group people. I’m not defending anyone now, but really, there were a few people not wearing masks, I’m not saying that they’re right, but all these posts about “chasidim not wearing masks, etc.” you had here OVER 150 CHASIDIM WEARING MASKS! Did anyone pay attention to that? Sorry, but some of these posts remind me of typical antisemitism or racism. As if you never have any other sect or religion on airplanes who are not obeying rules, just make a quick google and YouTube search… stop thinking the way Esav and Yishmael do!
I’m chassidish and ALWAYS wear a mask.Some people here are haters too. Guess what, Lufthansa hates ALL of us.
I live in NY and fly to Florida regularly.
While wrong to stereotype and group people by association – Hasidics in my experience are very lax when it comes to mask compliance in general and often have this attitude of entitlement on flights.
Therefore, if you see one of the Chasidim is too lax, ban all other compliant Chasidim too.
Just pointing out that from 1933-1939 when the Nazi’s were vilifying the Jews, the well-assimilated Jews in Berlin were sitting securely. They were rather sure that the target of the Nazi’s were the Polish Jews who had immigrated some years earlier and had never shed their old-world ways. Of course, what was happening to them was tragic, but the cultured German surely had nothing to fear. If only they’d dress like cultured people and stop acting so heimish.
Until they realized that it was all an excuse. But then it was too late.
Actually, in of the pictures above you see 2 gentiles not properly masked.
And you know they are gentiles because…?
Granted they’re not Charedim, but don’t stereotype other people in the way you don’t want to be sterotyped.
I think Lufthansa has openings for all antisemites/antihasidimites…..
You guys are nothing better than them and your sinas chinam is definitely not bringing Mashiach closer!
The comments some are making about chassidim are utterly disgusting especially because they seem to be baseless. They are doing exactly the same thing the Germans did in the same breath as they are condemning them for doing it.
Couldn’t agree more
Has this been brought the attention of the Israeli government, the US government, or even just the FAA? I suspect there will be a class action and punitive damages. If there is a recovery, make sure it is in cash and not flight vouchers so as to be able to travel on a different airline.
You are correct – most flights we take worldwide, we make a Kiddush Hashem. I mainly fly to Israel and Florida where many are Jewish, and my comment was geared to those specific locations. NY to FL and NY to TLV.
You are also correct that even on those flights, the majority act with unusual courtesy and do make a Kiddush Hashem, however the small percentage that flaunt the rules cause us to be lumped together in a negative light.
I am sure after a flight where 95% act like Bnei Torah, others usually focus on the 5% that give the bad rap.
Bingo.
Wow, you would think they would have learned from the atrocities they committed against Jews during ww2. All involved should be fired and prosecuted. Wow. In 2022. Unreal.
Dan, as a retired attorney, one of the things that your lawyers definitely need to find out is the name of the pilot as it appears that he is the miniating culprit in this. Perhaps he has a history of anti-Semitism or xenophobia of some kind.
It could be that fearful of a strong pilot’s union, Lufthansa acquiesced so as not to have workplace strife. The gate agents from your story seem to have been caught in the middle of this, from the above.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Circulate this to the NY Post – the NY Times don’t give a fig about Jews (however, if you were Muslim, it would be a different matter….), The Simon Wiesenthal Center, and perhaps even the left wing ADL, though, like the NYT I don’t expect them to act, as they are in the throes of CRT and allyship concerns, not fighting for Jewish rights.
Also, have them look into various US and EU anti-discrimination statutes…..
First if all, Jews should not fly any German airline if any other carrier is available. Antisemitism has been shooting up in Germany once again.iIt did not disappear just because.the Nazis lost the war. Thousands upon thousands continued to hold antisemitic views which they transmitted to their children and grandchildren. That’s not to say that the German govt is necessarily antisemitic…at least not openly so. Despite this, why do our fellow Jews insist upon sowing the seeds of conflict? Many g’dolim, very prominent rabbis, have ruled that it is absolutely fine to daaven in your seat on a plane… especially if not doing so would cause friction with the crew, which would be a chillul HaShem.. Thirdly, would it have been such a major inconvenience if the few who hadn’t been masked would have donned one? It seems that there were many other passengers, Jewish and non-Jewish who did mask. For the sake of shalom it would have been worth masking. Furthermore, masking may provide some degree of protection even though air on a plane is exchanged and filtered very efficiently. Shamore et nafshecha alone could justify donning a mask.
None of this excuses the actions of the Germans in this incident. In today’s “progressive” climate, we Jews are once again the favorite target. Each incident must be publicized to the max, and where possible, litigated. If we just shrug it off and grumble amongst ourselves things will only get worse, because the world hates us and believes we are easy targets.
So the airlines issue was masks? Or praying?
Their issue were the Jewish…
It seems like the airlines issue was masks, but the negative poster (Robert’s) issue was praying.
רשעים ארורים!!!
I had the worst experience flying with Lufthansa
a week half ago I took a flight from Chicago to Israel with a layover in Munich and then to Israel
First flight they did not serve me with a kosher meal even though I had it reserved in advance. When I spoke to the Head flight attendant and explain to him that I have nothing to eat for the next 8 hours he did not care and just told me that he has nothing to give me
After insisting he came back after half an hour and gave me an Apple and a banana I was shocked !
Wen I landed I went to customer service and try to complain but they just did not care and gave me a website that I should contact .
The worst was when on the connection flight to Israel from Munich there was probably around 50 people that ordered kosher meals and again they served all of us with a banana and an apple in a bag
many people start shouting and getting angry and ashamed at this horrible service
The non kosher meals were five stars sandwiches chocolates fruits etc
I had almost 18 hours with only eating bananas and apples
Lufthansa treated us like in 1941 Never Again
Erm, let’s not compare forgetting kosher meals or bad kosher meals to 1941 please. If that’s your worst flying experience, you’re doing pretty darn good!
+1k
The silly comparisons is way over the top already. Try saying that to any Holocaust survivor.
Right, sometimes in China I would get a single raw potato as my kosher meal. On good days I got a cucumber!
You’re being dramatic. The rest of the world does not have to cater to your dietary needs. You should be glad you got food. In 1941, your people were starved to death. Maybe the rest of the world is sick of your entitlement.
Entitlements? The airline advertises kosher food, and it is included in the ticket he purchased. The reason they do so is because otherwise he would fly with another airline which *does* offer kosher food, not because of an “entitlement”.
It’s not an entitlement to want the food you ordered and require for your religious need given to you just like everybody else on the plane. Does it also irk you so much when someone who ordered a gluten-free or vegan meal due to their allergies complains about not receiving it?
Anti-Semite much?
(No, it’s nothing like 1941. That was a ridiculous thing to say.)
Hope you get your entitled dog food, and as sick as you may get from this – we are here to stay.
That a Jew is willing to fly on a German-owned airline was their first mistake, do you think anything has really changed? The Germans only know how to transport Jews en masse, so why should this time be different?
I last flew Lufthansa 12 years ago, using a pittance of USAir miles to fly first class with my wife.
I rather relished the irony of the Jewish nation outlasting the Third Reich and being transported half a century later in such style.
But I’d like to see how Lufthansa responds to this before booking another flight with them.
Your comment is ironic because in this case they elected to NOT transport Jews en masse…
Fly LH biz class often. That will not be happening in the future, there are many other choices. Interesting how no one in the chain of command could “see” what was happening, or even how it looked. I guess people were just following orders. Buh bye Lufthansa.
This is what boggles my mind.
How did no higher ups see what the optics would be on banning nearly all of the Jews on a flight from taking any Lufthansa flight out of Germany?
But @Dan according to the story, it wasn’t just a ban from that flight, it was for 24 hours! So the higher-ups did not just not intervene, they must have actively supported the ban!
My point exactly.
I recently flew LH with family, FAs were extremely agitated after some members of a larger group on board tried to swap seats and stood for davening (most stood at the foot of or in their seats, though)
One exasperated FA came over to my companion and started a “always. Every time you people” rant, my companion responded with an “Excuse me? I don’t recall having had an exchange or interaction with you previously, who’s you people?” The FA walked away defeated.
Sue their swastikas off!
A few years back I traveled Lufthansa business with my brother. We stopped in Frankfurt and when we rightfully entered the Business class lounge we were greeted with a scornful welcome. We were asked for Pepeerin. Once we produced our credential we were very reluctantly were let in with the attitude that we are not welcome. I have not flown this airline again and never plan to.
I’m hoping that LH will come to their senses and train their ground and air crews in common sense and courtesy. At the same time, I for one will try to make my fellow Yid aware if and when they make a Chilul Hashem. I’ve been embarrassed by my some of us in the past and have bitten my lips. Maybe it’s the wrong to do. See something, say something. I expect a bit more from Lufwaffe, but a whole lot more from our folks!
I have flown Lufthansa before – but never again! This is totally outrageous. Everyone who was involved with making the decision or enforcing it should be immediately fired.
Somewhat unrelated – about 20 years ago, flying through Frankfurt airport to Israel, I had an antique challah knife in my checked luggage – they made me take it out before checking my luggage and have it sent through security to be picked up in Ben Gurion (where the expensive antique was left out on a counter with no one guarding it). I could not understand the point – my suitcase was going into the baggage compartment of the plane!
At the time I restrained myself from making a snide comment about Germans taking away valuables from Jews.
Dan, kudos, that was one of the most thorough investigative reporting articles I have ever seen
Thanks!
Once I was digging deeper, it was very rewarding to have one person remember a name and then being able to find a person by that name, who corroborated the story and added more depth.
That’s also how I eventually located the final video in the post, which is the most damning for Lufthansa. I don’t see how they can explain that away.
Well they explained it away by getting it removed from YouTube
Here you have all the email addresses to where to send this.
https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/lufthansa-airlines/
So saddening! I wish I could say only the Lufthansa behavior. But watching all the video, it’s clear that we could/should have been more careful. Especially in Germany!
As a frum Jew, I can say that many chasidim don’t know how to behave and cause a tremendous chilul hashem. Lufthansa is in the wrong but we should also be honest and try to somehow get the klall to improve their behavior.
Now say the same thing again but the oppositeway, first “we should try to somehow” and then “but Lufthansa is in the wrong.
Slicha, as a frum god fearing Chasidic Jew, I grew up in an environment that encouraged obeying rules and respecting my fellow other-sects mindsets. I flew ElAl last summer with many yeshivish bachurim on flight, sorry and sad to say… if we want to blame each other, we can do so. But no good will come out of it. When your brother does something wrong ch”v, you’ll stand on his side unconditionally, and even your personal remark to him will, hopefully, be in a respectful manner. It’s a “huge” chillul hashem the way I see people acting here.
And for the record, it was a short-suit and bend-down boy blowing shofar on my flight…
100%, but this is a frum forum and I think it’s important we be honest with ourselves. There are other minorities that play the victim card and complain about discrimination when in fact there is a bit of a justification and a reason for it. My point here is that yes, we shouldn’t remain silent but we should also be honest with ourselves, as a group, we have what to learn in terms of manners and derech eretz. I find it worse by chasidim (refusing to sit next to a woman, demanding out of the ordinary requests etc) but obviously it’s across the board.
You may be right in different scenarios, but in this particular case it was not wild Yeshiva students etc. It was Chasidishe adults who from the videos are pretty much respectful even in such a tensions scene. Your generalization of what we need to improve is not relevant to this particular story. We can debate and work on that after LH takes responsibility and solves it.
Slicha again… it’s an old argument over what’s considered a chilul hashem, and I’m not the one forcing my opinion on others. But really? Obeying halachos are a chilul hashem, when my great grandfather told his boss that he can’t work on Shabbos, it was a chilul hashem? Indeed, when someone has a any request onboard a flight, he should do it in a normal way, but that doesn’t mean that he should request that. And yes, I know someone a CHASIDISHE guy who couldn’t change his seat on a flight from London to NY, he sat down with his coat on him, to be the least comfortable possible, and didn’t stand up from his seat during the whole flight. That’s a kiddush hashem, to my opinion.
And just for joke of it, I know of someone who was assigned a seat next to a woman. He asked for a change since he can’t sit next to a strange woman. The FA told him “it’s no problem, I’ll introduce you to her…”
And to set the record straight. I’m chasidish, I’m vaccinated, I usually go with a mask when asked for it, I try being polite – not only to non Jews but to Jews as well. And overall, I love you even though you don’t like me. And all of the above, because I’m a chasid.
Amen! I experienced in be past the worse airlines: Tarim, Lufthansa and Aer Lingus
Your opinion is basically that of Lufthansa with one slight difference – to them it’s ‘Jews’ don’t follow rules and to you it’s ‘Chassidim’ don’t follow rules…
Nope. I said that Lufthansa were wrong BUT we shouldn’t be like other minorities complaining about others without reflecting on ourselves. If you’re honest with yourself and if you traveled with frum people, and especially chasidim, you’ll admit that we as a group have a lot to improve on. Yes, there is bias but we make it very easy for them to hate is even more with the way we behave. They should sue, but we should also reflect.
Might be, but usually frum Jews, try to see what they can do to improve things. The word is not “as a frum Jew, I can say that many Chasidim…” it should rather be “as an anti Chasid, I can say…” the differentiation between frum and chasid as good and bad isn’t a frum way of thinking.
Hello to the poster and to all.
I myself have traveled to Austria via Austrian Air and on the way home with Lufthansa, I must state that on the way to Vienna which from there we made our trip to BudroKerestier the Majority of people were masks at all times, I myself which at home the majority of the time did NOT wear the mask during most of the COVID PLANDEMIC and although it was for me extremely difficult to wear a mask on the plane especially when I had no fresh air to breath normally was ridiculous, but I made sure to wear it to the best oc my ability on the flight.
On the way back with Lufthansa they kept naging and nudging non stop about the mask and litterly walked around searching for people which had a mask but not over the nose or that it fell off while sleeping, and this was all in the while that Stewards sat in the back between themselves in the kitchen without it and when I saw one of them without it he quickly turned away and put it on.
I personnel do have a picture of a non Jewish person without his mask as he and his wife walked around the plane and were not asked to put on any.
I must say that some stewards were very helpful and tried to not bother much although they are forced to do so unwillingly, but sadly some stewards have the enjoyment of playing the Mistress or Master in the house, or the Principal of the school or the strict boss.
It is a shame because this is clearly Antisemitism or Anti Jewish and very unethical for a sane professional airline to do such.
I personally hope to never need to fly them again and definitely not by 1st or second choice.
British airlines, Swiss air, Lot polish are way better choice
I hope a class action Lawsuit will come very soon and that includes the Plan it Rite group which I flew with on another flight.
P. S. If the poster needs the picture in order to assist with any lawsuit I will be pleased to share it with the poster.
Also P. S. That by check in on the first part of the return they also gave an extremely hard time with the handbags when most Jewish People flew only with handbags
LH Group includes SWISS, Austrian and Brussels, by the way.
I just flew Austrian air — part of Lufthansa group — 2 weeks ago. I had a mask but didn’t wear it. All went fine. Many weren’t wearing masks too. They were super chilled. Not a peep from the airline staff. Side note: I paid $$$$ to upgrade my seat. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the airline treats you different if they see you as a customer or someone who pays top dollar to fly with them. Seems like they are told to treat you nicer when flying Premium economy for example vs. economy. So the fact that these groups flew with points might have really annoyed them. But again, this is no surprise to me since “following orders” is what Germany does best…
I have long ago boycotted Lufthansa due to anti-Semitic treatment I received circa 2005. My heart goes out to those harmed here. Will never forget and will never fly Lufthansa again.
I encourage everyone to do the same.
Defer Lufthansa flights worldwide for racial discrimination until perpetrators have been punished.
My mom and grandma refused to buy German cars or fly though Germany. Now we know why. We forget too easily, but they never do
Right. One group of flight attendants and police means that the hundreds of millions of Germans since WW II must all be Nazis.
I would have called them Exactly what they were nazi bastards. The same vermin that exterminated my great grandparents and tried to kill my grandparents. I don’t understand why we should not move all these kevarim to Israel
So sad This people should be thrown out of the company and be charged with law suits
Is there any (simple/available to the public) way to find out the name of the captain?
I think the Orthodox made a chill hashem and everyone should apologize for both their own behavior and that of the group. This noncompliance to directives has its roots in the politicization of Covid by Conservative Republicans. Germany is a no nonsense country where abiding to rules. The epithets spoken by unruly passengers reflect on the group. In my book it wasn’t collective punishment. It was just walking away from servicing a group that are a riotous non conforming group. Plain and simple. In Israel the authorities are just as strict. Don’t play the N word in a country that has gone out of its way to make amends with the past. If you don’t like following directives go to Russia and do whatever you want.
Don’t come here to post without even bothering to read the article.
Have respect for another human being and take the time to read the article instead of getting onto your soapbox to spew forth venom regarding your pet peeve of the day.
This comment is drivel. There were non jews not wearing masks. Look at the photos. There were jews wearing masks. This is discrimination that nobody would dare do against any other race or group. Period. And if you were on the flight, you’d be hated too. What will it take to make you wake up?!?
And for the record, I’m chassidish and always follow all rules. I’ve never gotten a ticket or been pulled over by a cop either. So quit maligning a group.
Oh the wise liberal make believe Jews. Before ww2 the reform did an amazing time integrating until…..
“Don’t play the N word in a country that has gone out of its way to make amends with the past”
You might want to rethink that. My grandparent aren’t coming back because they “went out of their way to make amends”. So sorry to inconvenience them. The only way to truly “make amends” would be to shove them all into ovens, *exactly* as they did to six million innocents.
Get out of here with that attitude. I’m not going to forgive them because “they went out of their way”.
Adam- Spoken like an uninformed fool.
Haven’t been so sickened story in a very long time. Outrageous. I hope Lufthansa is held responsible in some way
No words. Especially after hearing what actually happened. And the captain of the plane has such a power to ban a group of people from not only “his” flight, but from any other flight over the next 24 hours. And then have the audacity to cancel return tickets because people missed their connections – connections the airline cancelled without cause.
And all over a stupid piece of cloth which doesn’t provide much protection if any in some scenarios.
I have never seen a chat with this many comments it took me a very long time to read most of them .i am a child born in Germany 1948 to 2 survivors .my parents never let us buy any german made products. Especiallly cameras cars watches etc..when i asked my parents if i may go to visit Germany or Poland after i was married. They categorically told me NO dont even go on their soil its full of our relatives blood. We then went to visit Romania and Hugery. I was on an El Al flight to tlv when the captain announced we were all being treated to an unscheduled stop in Munich to start a new route for ElAl. AS A YONG MAN OF 18 I sent an urgent message to the captain asking to be allowed to get off this plane.I knew many of the flight attendebts as they were my customers in an electrical appliance store on the east side. I CITIED an international law that an airlike may not divert a passenger from the ticked route.i showd them my passport said i was born in Germany and I refuse to go back.
The captain too knew me and called for an el al car to pick me up on the tarmack. I got off the plane and was givin a seat on Swissair that got me to Israel 2 hours earlier.
I strongly advise all passengers thet were mistreated by LH to do all on their power to publicize and sue all those involved both in the USA and in Germany. ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO FLY LH REGULARLY SHOULD STOP IMMEDIATELY .WE DONT DESERVE THIS TREATMENT. SIGNED NATANEREZ
C
why isn’t any one doing anything like suing them. !!!!!!!!!!!!
Second to last line of the post?
Am I nuts for thinking that they shouldn’t take a settlement even if they offer one, let it go to court, get dragged out and damage Luthfansa’s PR as much as possible to stand up for ourselves. Yes we are in Galus but the Umos HaOlam can’t push us around this would show everyone.????
I am not trying to be a clown about this serious incident, but maybe someone should make a “United breaks guitars” or something to show them?
I personally have loads of Lifemiles I was planning on using to fly LH First Class again, I had a great flight and enjoyed the LH First Class Terminal in Frankfurt but even with an apology I don’t think I emotionaly can after this.
I wonder what percentage of the people in this comments section will actually keep their word and never fly LH again, I’m thinking somewhere around 0
You don’t know me. I wouldn’t fly for free on LH.
it will only take a bunch of voices and a few hundred dollars. if we don’t stop the here it will just get worse. ”who said it. who said the n word” you can feel the anti Semitism it almost sounded as if he wanted to hurt some one. no air line should get away with this no Jew shall fly that nasty air line. lets have a nation wide boycott towards that nasty air line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regardless of the reason for the ban—which very well could be anti-Semitic—the whole idea of applying “Sippenhaft“ in a commercial setting is asking for trouble and akin to “biting off one’s nose to spite their face”
Singling out any group based on looks/religion/race is asking for trouble and would never fly for anyone familiar with a litigious, quick to sue society like America.
I think mask mandates are a total joke. But I follow them even to this day if I must. I’d probably push the compliance envelope on a flight but would certainly button up after a captain’s announcement. Shame some members of the group didn’t self police. It gave a likely bigoted pilot reason to believe he had an excuse to inconvenience the group.
I’m Catholic and love The Jewish culture. I find it full of disciplined, intelligent, hard working folks who have a long history of sacrifice and contributions to society. I will say however that I experienced a similar situation of non-compliance at the Confidante Miami Beach back in 2020 during the height of Covid. Pre-vaccine the hotel was taken over by a large contingent of NYC Jews who refused to wear masks. The hotel, desperate for revenue or to avoid conflict, didn’t attempt to enforce any masking. This was during the absolute peak of Covid and it created an uncomfortable atmosphere. Those folks were very selfish for staying at the property and being so agregious in defying the rules and making others worried and fearful during a time of lots of misinformation about Covid. Gave their culture a bad name.
Now that Covid is seen as much less harmful, Lufthansa went waaay overboard in this instance. Again, mask mandates are a joke and that FA who refused to turn a blind eye must either be in fear for their job or a true believer in the Covid propaganda. Mask mandates give cover for the timid to remain timid anonymously.
I’m sorry but your observation seems to be completely off, and the story from Miami in 2020 while unfortunate is completely irrelevant to this case. If the decision was made by Lufthansa to put a ban on all “Jews” regardless of any other affiliation to the few who didn’t comply with the mask rule, then it was an historic case of blatant anti-Semitism. Period. And you and I know that this would have never happened to any other religion. Being that this took place in no other place but in Germany! the nation that committed arguably the most despicable atrocities in the worlds history against the Jewish people just a few years ago should make every decent human being sick to their core. My only hope is that those responsible for this horrible act will suffer severe consequences, which would just slightly correct this travesty.
We have to boycott Lufthansa
Also Israel should banish this company from flying to or from Israel
Dear Dan,
I am an avid reader of your site however I rarely comment. After reading this post I wanted to let you know how much I (and I am sure your entire readership) appreciate you sticking up us as Jews and sticking your neck out to let Luftansa know that this is not ok. I am the son of Holocaust survivors and I was always taught that we as Jews most look out for one another regardless of our sect of Judaism and treat everyone with respect. So THANK YOU!!!!
couldn’t agree more
Ironic how they wanna pretend they’re only “singling out” the “non compliant mask wearers” who coincidently are solely visibly jewish, while they all collectively ignoref the entire row of non Jews all wearing their masks below their noses lmao
I am beyond shocked. We know anti- semitism is up in the US.Apparently it is also alive and well on Lufthansa, the German airline, AND in terms of the cop being upset at being called a Nazi – truth is sometimes painful!
how did you contact lufthansa via email twittter? etc
This is awful. Those anti Semitic scumbags are still the same repulsive nazis that they were 80 years ago. Never fly Lufthansa, ever.
First of all a disclaimer LUFTHANSA was wrong for meting out collective punishment
But now let me give you the other side (if you want to call it that)
I was on the Lufthansa flt to Frankfurt the day before flying business class my flight originated Newark the airport was chaos
Because of “our groups” with parents who were flying business class checking in the hole “extended family” (aren’t we all related !)on the business class line when I got on line the supervisor let me have it on behalf of what was going on screaming at me to get in the coach line etc until I went up to her and told her she owes me an apology as I’m a business class passenger and am indeed on the correct line at which point she indeed apologized to me and explained to me why she was upset and screaming as whole families were trying to use the business class line to avoid the huge delays and line at coach which were 80% unzere
So you can imagine what the scene was this is even before boarding this was just ck in now with star alliance they were checking in Austrian,Lufthansa and Swiss so you had the same ck in lines for all airlines and unzere were using both Austrian and Lufthansa
Once we boarded and I can only talk for business class the service was good
I even asked for permission to daven marriv with a minyan and they gave us permission and even switched out a passenger who wanted to sleep to another seat in order to accommodate our minyan
I asked him for the names of those stewardess and pursuer to thank them and laud them for going above and beyond
The head purser approached me and asked me to please speak to one of unzere who was asked a few times to wear a mask and didn’t pay attention
If I could ask him to please listen and abide by the regulations
When I approached this person and relayed the request saying this man was the one who okayed the minyan
he answered me in Yiddish er meg vellen, too bad
I was obviously shocked but saw their was no reasoning with him and that’s the real chilul hashem when you make another Jew be embarrassed by your behavior
No one forced you to fly Lufthansa but of course you used points to fly business and they was what was available you still need to abide by the regulations why is it that we feel we are above the law and above regulations and mask regulations are only for others not for us ??
Of course it doesn’t condone the airlines response but we bring it on ourselves by not acting the way we should and then we scream anti semitisim
The chilul hashem was caused by those passengers who ignored the directions of the stewards when asked to Pls mask and caused everyone to be banned
By being upset at Lufthansa and ignoring the behavior that brought it about we’re all missing the point
We are in golus and Halacha esuv sone leyakov all the more so when we give them the excuse
I hope the cls action suit goes thru as the airlines response is totally beyond the pale
BUT we brought this upon ourselves
Ps I would rethink before flying Lufthansa again though I’m returning with them tomorrow
um… because the day before you flew business and were treated well, therefore the collective punishment on a group of hundreds for the act of a few is what, ok?
nope. because your a spoiled business class traveler it doesn’t make anti-Semitic actions ok.
What a stupid comment!!!!
In other words your saying that YOU weren’t treated well be other Jews but was treated well by Luftanza
Why don’t you just change your name from Avi to Hitler and start write a book and name it mein kampf
Dan, perhaps remove this comment. Seems to be just name calling and personal attacks
Wow! What an idiotic comment!
Apparently, anybody who relays an experience, demonstrating how maybe every German isn’t actually a Nazi, must be as bad as Hitler!
Such utter nonsense! – Especially when I assume that you’re attempting to make the point that not all Jews should be lumped together.
Such an embarrassing comment!
Totally agree.
While I love Dan’s research and the waves it’s creating for LH’s antisemitic behavior, I think it’s also an opportunity for us to strengthen the importance of making a kiddush hashem especially when traveling.
People like the passenger in Avi’s story (without linking him to a specific stream) are generously contributing to the negative attitude towards Jews.
GREAT POIN! RIGHT ON TARGET!
Chassidim need to read this comment and learn to start FOLLWING RULES. It always has to be the chassidish guy who would not comply and cause us all a headache. As far as I’m aware, all these “getting kicked off the plane” stories happened with Chassidim. Next time you on a flight and the “Chussid” makes a Chillul Hashem please go over to him and let him have it. Next, notify the stewardess that this guy does not represent THE WAY US JEWS ARE SUPPOSED TO CONDUCT OURSELVES.
Shameless antisemitic Jewish Jew-hater. Go fly Yidenrein LH, you’ll feel at home.
Are you Chassidish? Perhaps Hiemesh? Please take a poll and find out the reality in which we’re in, with Chassidim disobeying rules time and time again. Just make a Kidush Hashem. ENOUGH!
Take a poll among antisemits and find out reality on Jews in general.
Take a poll here and find out reality that you are a hater.
@Jake, I wouldn’t waste my time on such people as Jaso. He just seems incapable of civilized discourse.