Update, 2/27/23: Thanks to New Jersey’s $4,000 rebate and no sales tax, NJ residents can lease a Model 3 for approximately $350/month, with the $4,000 down payment covered by the NJ rebate! The $7,500 federal tax credit is not applicable to car leases, but Tesla has lowered leasing rates as they are able to receive those funds and pass along savings.
Update, 1/26/23: ChargeUp NJ has updated their rebates and you can now get a $4,000 on the Model 3 RWD and a $2,000 rebate on the Model 3 Performance, and a $2,000 rebate on the Model Y. Combined with the federal tax credit, that will drop the price for the Model 3 RWD to $32,490, the Model 3 Performance AWD to $44,490, and the Model Y Long Range AWD to $43,990. Those prices should be retroactive to orders placed as of 1/12.
NJ residents also pay no sales tax on electric cars and can get a $250 credit for installing an eligible home charger.
Note that the federal rebate will likely decrease at some point during March and you must take delivery before then to get the full $7,500 credit.
Dan’s Note: Tesla includes autopilot for free on all cars. I’d recommend getting the Enhanced Autopilot for $6,000, which allows for auto lane changes on highways and many other features. I’d recommend against spending $15,000 for full self driving, which currently adds very little to Enhanced Autopilot.
Update, 1/13/23: If you live in NJ, you can also get a $2,000 rebate on the Model 3, dropping the price for the Rear-Wheel Drive to as low as $34,490 or Performance to as low as $44,490. While NJ offers $4,000 off vehicles up to $45,000, the current program is not set up to give that rebate on cars that drop in price before going through a lengthy process. The Model Y doesn’t appear to be currently eligible, but that also may change in the future.
Update, 1/12/23: Tesla has just massively slashed prices on their cars, plus you can save more with a $7,500 tax credit valid through at least 2/28/23. The tax credit applies in full if you have AGI in 2022 or 2023 up to $300,000 for married couples filing jointly, $225,000 for heads of households, or $150,000 for all other filers. As long as your AGI is lower than those numbers in either year, you will qualify for the credit. The credit is non-refundable, so it can’t exceed your federal taxes owed for the year, but it will apply and you will receive a refund if your taxes are automatically withheld by your employer.
Tesla pricing can change at any time, but if you place an order with a $250 deposit you will have the price locked in.
New Tesla pricing:
- Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive/Standard Range+: Was $46,990, now $43,990 or $36,490 after $7.5K tax credit.
- Model 3 All-Wheel Drive/Performance: Was $62,990, now $53,990 or $46,490 after $7.5K tax credit.
- Model Y All-Wheel Drive/Long Range: Was $65,990, now $52,990 or $45,490 after $7.5K tax credit.
- Model Y All-Wheel Drive/Performance: Was $69,990, now $56,990. Not eligible for tax credit.
- Model S All-Wheel Drive/Long Range: Was $104,990, now $94,990. Not eligible for tax credit.
- Model S Plaid: Was $135,990, now $114,990. Not eligible for tax credit.
- Model X All-Wheel Drive/Long Range: Was $120,990, now $109,990. Not eligible for tax credit.
- Model X Plaid: Was $138,990, now $119,990. Not eligible for tax credit.
Update, 6/20/22: Thought Tesla was done with the price hikes? Think again…
- Model 3 Standard Range: Was $35,000, now no longer available for sale.
- Model 3 Standard Range+: Was $37,990, now $46,990. Increase of $9K/23.7%.
- Model 3 Long Range: Was $46,990, now $57,990. Increase of $11K/23.4%.
- Model 3 Performance: Was $54,990, now $62,990. Increase of $8K/14.5%.
- Model Y Standard Range: Was $41,990, now no longer available for sale.
- Model Y Long Range: Was $49,990, now $65,990. Increase of $16K/32%.
- Model Y Performance: Was $59,990, now $69,990. Increase of $10K/16.7%.
- Model S Long Range: Was $79,990, now $104,990. Increase of $25K/31.3%.
- Model S Plaid: Was $119,990, now $135,990. Increase of $16K/13.3%.
- Model X Long Range: Was $89,990, now $120,990. Increase of $31K/34.4%.
- Model X Plaid: Was $119,990, now $138,990. Increase of $19K/15.8%.
On the plus side, after this article was posted, Tesla listened to user feedback and allowed users to restore the defogger, wipers, and seat warmers to be added back to the home screen for easy adjustments while driving.
Did you make a Tesla reservation before the price hikes?
Originally posted on 3/16/22:
I’ve written several articles on Tesla after buying a Model 3 in 2018.
Shortly after I got the car, Tesla accidentally handed over full control over their forums to me, which made national news headlines.
I wrote about my thoughts on the car after 2 years here. Incredibly, I can still flip my 4 year old car for nearly $46,000, which is what Tesla was charging for my long range Model 3 before they raised prices over the past year.
I can’t say I’m thrilled about the direction of the car over the past several months. The V11 software update made everything far less intuitive and more difficult to use. I was frustrated enough to file a NHTSA safety complaint about the update as it means having to scroll through menus while driving for simple tasks that used to be doable on the home screen. It’s the first time Tesla made a software update that I wanted to roll back, as their previous software updates have been incredible.
I also don’t like that I paid $3,000 for full self driving, but can’t have access to the full self driving beta as Tesla doesn’t deem my driving to be safe enough according to their ridiculous algorithm. Driving perfectly how Tesla wants you to drive takes much of the fun out of the car and is frankly dangerous. They don’t want you to ever use the brake, rather to rely only on regenerative braking. It’s ridiculous to be penalized for when you just have to brake. Full self driving now costs an outrageous $12,000 (!) and there’s not a chance it’s worth anything close to that with its current features and limitations. The autopilot that is included for free is more than good enough.
It seemed like there would be an opportunity for NJ residents to get a Model 3 for just $22K-$27K last September, but that fell through when the Build Back Better plan failed to pass the Senate. I wrote then that I expected the price of a Tesla to go up and indeed, those that reserved a Tesla then did well, as the cost of a Tesla has skyrocketed since then. People with reservations have been able to sell them on the grey market for a very healthy profit.
Here is a look at how much Teslas have gone up over the past year:
- Model 3 Standard Range: Was $35,000, now no longer available for sale.
- Model 3 Standard Range+: Was $37,990, now $46,990. Increase of $9K/23.7%.
- Model 3 Long Range: Was $46,990, now $54,490. Increase of $7.5K/16%.
- Model 3 Performance: Was $54,990, now $61,990. Increase of $7K/12.7%.
- Model Y Standard Range: Was $41,990, now no longer available for sale.
- Model Y Long Range: Was $49,990, now $62,990. Increase of $13K/26%.
- Model Y Performance: Was $59,990, now $67,990. Increase of $8K/13.3%.
- Model S Long Range: Was $79,990, now $99,990. Increase of $20K/25%.
- Model S Plaid: Was $119,990, now $135,990. Increase of $16K/13.3%.
- Model X Long Range: Was $89,990, now $114,990. Increase of $25K/27.8%.
- Model X Plaid: Was $119,990, now $138,990. Increase of $19K/15.8%.
Those are some pretty impressive price increases.
Elon Musk says that Tesla is facing significant inflation, and there’s no doubt that’s the case, though these numbers far outpace inflation.
In addition to inflation, Tesla likely increased pricing in order to capture extra dollars from people pre-emptively ordering cars in hopes of a federal rebate. That didn’t happen, but instead gas prices spiraled out of control, which has incentivized electric cars without the government providing a direct rebate. That demand has allowed Tesla to continuously raise prices with no end in sight, not unlike Disney theme parks. As long as the demand is there to create a months long backlog of cars, there is no reason that Tesla can’t keep asking for more money for their cars.
If it looks like a federal rebate on electric cars will be revived, I’d guess that Tesla will be able to increase prices that much higher to capture that rebate for themselves.
It will take some serious competition or other external factors to get Tesla pricing to come back down again.
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292 Comments On "NJ Residents Can Lease A Tesla Model 3 Lease For Just $350/Month!"
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If people are willing to pay, keep raising prices.
– A Tesla shareholder and owner
Tesla cars are fugly except Model S
They’re not which is why prices are going down
Yep, Long live Elona! 😉
It’s interesting. When Tesla’s prices went down, people complained about having paid more when they bought theirs, now prices go up, people complain about having to pay more now.
I don’t think their pricing is due to “what the market will bear” or hedging against a possible government rebate. I think, like every other industry, their costs have gone up. Nickel and Lithium have gone up, and I’m sure chip manufacturers are charging more as well.
What we don’t see here, is the dealerships gouging an extra 10 – 20k above MSRP as we see with the legacy automakers. So much for the poor dealers needing to fight to keep legislation requiring their services to “protect the consumer”.
In my opinion, they offer a decent product at a decent price, and if it weren’t for them, we wouldn’t have any EVs on the market – they lit the fire under the legacy automakers.
Prices went down last time according to the drop in the federal rebate…
If it was solely due to inflation then the price increases would be more uniform and not 12%-28%. The nickel and lithium pricing doesn’t vary like that between trims.
I don’t see any argument for why it’s not pricing at what the market will bear, which is what the pricing model is nearly every product out there.
But yes, it’s refreshing not to haggle with dealerships and to be able to get a quality EV.
your post implies gouging (at least to me, whether you meant to or not i can’t say) – this isn’t gouging. And if you look at raw materials, crude increases don’t match the doubling of unleaded.
Battery size varies, and the upper end (e.g. plaid) trips already had some price cushion in play – they held back on those increases to be competitive – perhaps even to drive people to those trims, as they now seem like a deal.
Lol they don’t have to charge over 10k over msrp because they can just raise the msrp whenever they want overnight
True. This ain’t Ford.
Well put and so true!
The problem is that the serious competitors that are starting to come to market (i.e. Ford Mach E, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6) are also capacity restrained and sold out everywhere and selling for well over MSRP.
But not 20% above msrp. And those markups are the fault of dealers not manufacturers passing on increases in excess of inflation
Indeed. That’s the difference between the Tesla direct sale model and the dealership model.
Yup. Tesla can be even more of a ‘jerk’ than car dealers, one of the most hated industries!
Te$la vs stealerships!
No such thing as a serious competitor
Have you ever heard of the word Fanboy?
on every thread where anyone argues with someone who doesn’t like tesla
Tesla still the best car I’ve owned and live autopilot for long drives. I own an 2017 model X and a 2017 model 3 with another X on order that I have been waiting on which is now showing it should be ready in July. I also have an order for the cybertruck. If someone doesn’t like any particular car they have now is the time to sell it’s a sellers market. Tesla is offering me just under $70k for my model X as a trade in.
Just like gas is going up Electric energy prices are up 300% so home charging is getting costly as well.
I haven’t seen increases anything like that.
Reader is talking about Ukraine electricity cost….very expensive
I haven’t seen much increase in electric cost. I think ours went up from 11.7 cents/kWh to 12.3 cents/kWh this year.
What I know for sure is that my previous 4-door ICE sedan got about 50 miles from $10 of gasoline, and my equivalent 4-door EV sedan gets about 250 miles from $10 of electricity. And the old ICE 4-door sedan needed to be replaced anyway.
Interestingly enough, about 2 weeks after taking delivery of our Tesla, we bought a second used EV.
No one is forcing you to pay for FSD or to try to aim for a high safety score. Complaining about it is silly. They only expect ~10-15% adoption rates for FSD right now and the value proposition is one of long term value, not today. The value of FSD (in time) will be multiples of current price. Think of this hollow FSD package as a placeholder with commensurate pricing.
FSD is in beta and it’s expected after version 11 rolls out they’ll reduce the safety score to 95 just FYI. All of this is BETA so it’s important to understand it’s a moving target.
As far as why prices were raised (beyond inflation) it’s twofold:
1 – demand is far outpacing supply, 6-18 month wait times currently. Increasing price reduces demand to a reasonable wait time. Can’t afford it? Too bad, that’s life. Similar to your point on Disney – no one is owed a trip or a car if the market will support higher prices.
2 – commodities such as lithium and nickel are jumping in cost. You won’t find these to be included in any CPI report as far as inflation is concerned. Because Tesla locks in your reservation price they must offset current and future reservations at a higher price point to deal with skyrocketing costs of battery metals.
Also, I don’t think this has anything to do with a Federal rebate. Elon Musk has stated he’s for doing away with any incentives or new packages to prevent further inflationary pressure.
I hope this comment is approved because it’s important for people who aren’t in the loop with Tesla and EVs to understand what’s going on in today’s market and with FSD as a whole.
As an engineer, I don’t think a single car that is on the road today will ever be truly full self driving. The definition of full self driving is when I can send my kids in the car to school and the car will drive back to my house itself. The reason I say that is because I suspect that there is no car on the road today with sufficient processing power to be able to do it safely enough.
As an engineer, I don’t think SD will be a thing unless all cars are using it and communicating with each other – just too many unknowns and the speed at which things can change, and the limited number of execution paths (2 dimensions only, and must stay on the road). I’ve been surprised by revolutionary advancements in the past, so here’s to hoping…
Level 5 automated driving will take a whole lot of expensive tech in each car, mostly to reliably deal with objects on the roadway that are not vehicles (pedestrians, bicyclists, animals, etc.). This will most likely be federally regulated, as Tesla is stubbornly holding on to 2-D visual recognition for FSD (I cannot call this “Full Self Driving” because it is not, and is nowhere close to being such…very much similar to using KFC instead of Kentucky Fried Chicken). The current White House admin cannot stand Tesla, and can use this to really put a dent in FSD’s future.
L5 automation will also require a massive investment into the infrastructure of the roadways across the US from all parties involved (OEMs too) to be able to coordinate all of the vehicles on one communication system.
We’re looking at closer to 2040-2050 to have the tech truly ready to go, and it will slowly phase out cars with steering wheels over the next 20-40 years after that.
By then, cars will most likely shift into a MaaS (Mobility as a Service), AaaS (Automobile as a Service), or TaaS (Transportation as a Service), where individual people no longer own cars and simply hail rides everywhere (a la Elon’s “robotaxis”).
Also, who knows if BEVs will still be relevant, as other propulsion technologies will be further developed and more widely available…especially if there is a government investment in things like hydrogen processing and fueling stations around the country. Electricity off the grid is simply too unreliable to use for every vehicle on the road in the long-term future.
Robotaxis – is that the version of the robot apocalypse where the German, Japanese and Italian robots join in a rebellion against humanity?
I paid for FSD in 2018 based on promises that within a year it would be able to drive me across the country. So, why can’t I complain about that? It’s still not worth $12,000 now and I’ll be surprised if it ever is without superior hardware.
I don’t have a problem with prices matching demand. But a federal rebate certainly is a factor, as the price dropped in the past nearly exactly the amount of the rebate being phased out.
They went from lidar/radar + vision to now pure vision to remove real-time conflicts between sensors; they’ve moved on to pure vision, same as humans.
This change definitely caused delays, no doubt about it. But as the Nintendo founder once said “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.” In this case we’re talking about what is the vision based operating system for general use AI. It’s going to take time and there’s not going to be a smooth path.
That said we all know Elon operates on Elon time; he and his team will get the job done even if it takes longer more often than not; comes with the territory of setting unprecedented goals. Both a feature and a flaw in disruptive innovation.
Perhaps they initially were front running the rebate but again, I find it highly unlikely that even if it were true it’s not the sole reason. By in large input costs and demand are the two key levers that set price. In this case a tax credit would cause demand to spike further which doesn’t create positive sentiment with people already having to wait 6+ months.
I love how everyone says “The value of FSD is long term, not today”.
That is true, but keep in mind FSD is attached to the car, not the owner. So if your car gets totaled or you want to upgrade when the technology is ready, you will need to pay for it all over again. And the market may not love a tesla w 100k miles then as much as it does now.
Tesla’s have bucked the trend as far as vehicles being a depreciating asset. Look back before covid and you’ll see the same trend. This will be the case for a few years as we’re still only ~6% EV global adoption.
Their batteries are rated for 1 million miles and degredation tests have confirmed such. Furthermore, there’s less moving parts, fluids etc which inevitably means less points of failure. The best part is no part. This is why the old cars with no power steering/brakes or tech seemed to last forever as an unpleasant but reliable way to get from point A to point B.
In the future Tesla will gain more value owning/leasing fleets and gain far more than $100k value per life of the vehicle. Obviously years away for various reasons, regulation being a big one. But the point is Tesla doesn’t actually need nor care to provide lower price points/ friendly incentives for FSD ownership/subscription. Y’all are data collectors to feed into the NN for further edge case learning.
Natural degradation isn’t the only thing that would cause a tesla to total or to significantly depreciate. I know several people who have totaled their tesla for what would have been a minor to moderate accident on an ICE. But since the battery was damaged, the car was totaled. Also, if hardware significantly improves older models may be undesirable. This is one of the reasons why teslas are more expensive to insure in general than ICE of similar MSRP. It’s very possible that tesla realizes Level 3+ autonomy requires better hardware especially in poor conditions, for example. Battery breakthroughs (e.g., 4680) may improve ranges significantly on new models.
Yes, the battery pack being designed as part of the structure will cause higher costs of repair (or being totalled). Have to ask yourself though which do you prefer? Highest rated safety (Tesla) or less safe but potentially costs less to repair? Also note: very hard to roll a Tesla.
All cars (insert any tech) age and lose value as new tech end improvents are made. How is this unique to Tesla?
Tesla offers insurance in many states and they fully intend to offer it everywhere. I’ve personally watched $160/mo get dropped to $70. Tesla has accurate data. Also note: safer cars reduce premium.
IIRC 2017+ models are equipped with necessary hardware for FSD. Again, newer cars means latest and greatest technology. Because it’s a vision only system lidar/radar isn’t needed so that also reduces minimum requirements for FSD.
The range of Tesla vehicles are designed to meet 95%+ consumers needs when it comes to range. They’re also growing their charging network as fast as humanly possible (they have more cash than they know what to do with). Most people charge at home anyways.
The 4680 tabless design indeed increases performance/range (and costs less to produce). That said they’ll use LFP batteries in most non-performance vehicles because of constraints with battery metals (supply chain + cost).
Back to your main point though. Tesla’s do not depreciate nearly as fast as ICE vehicles. You can search for yourself. In many cases they’re selling for above new because of supply and demand (wait times for standard model Y is 2023 Jan now). Tesla is nearly doubling production on yearly basis and still can’t keep up with demand. Not to mention global market penetration is less than 4% for bEVs.
On another note when you compare total cost of ownership it’s not even close, Tesla (and EVs in general) cost far less to maintain.
Back to the Nissan Altima
Lol, I can’t imagine ever going back to an ICE car. I’m just waiting to see who will have the first EV minivan and hoping 9 year old Odyssey will hold out for it.
Rivian or the VW ID.Buzz are the closest things. But Id be shocked if a traditional minivan will come by 2026.
Isn’t Chrysler also releasing a Pacifica EV soon? Also Hyundai is considering an EV Staria and also considering bringing it to the US market.
Have a 2015 Honda Odyssey and three young kids, I won’t be trading it in until there’s a reasonable EV option (as much as I obviously love EVs). The value proposition as a family that needs booster seats and cargo space is just too good. For now.
All over Israel. Not sure if they are good or safe but and also not sure why there are no Chinese EVs in the US. There are many new Chinese cars you see in Israel.
Commercial materials/components have far outpaced inflation. I buy $10m commercial procucts annually and none of Tesla’s price increases are out of line with what I am seeing. Usually consumer goods are slower to rise for fear of sales drops, but Tesla is a luxury item (certainly after the price increases) so they can raise the prices right in line with the hit they are taking from the supply chain. It’s also possible they are actually raising wages/salaries in line with inflation, unlike most employers.
Correct!! Look at the construction industry with 50% price increases!
Elon Musk raising wages, PLEASE! Musk is a tightwad!
A cheap junk car with amazing technology at a crazy price. I have my order in with Fisker ocean one
Former model y owner
Just put an order for one right before the last price increase. Pretty sure we’re going to see another one again this year.
what was your purchase price?
Have you seen the price of food especially kosher food ? 25% increase is pretty standard especially with Putin making the USD similar in value to the Rouble with Bidens help…
The US dollar has increased in value compared to all foreign currencies. One USD now buys 137 Japanese yen. It was 110 yen last year. Same for the Euro, only need $1.06 USD to buy a Euro.
When will they finally release the model y with the new 4680 battery packs?
Serious competition has arrived. I know people have been saying that for years but it’s real now. BMW just releases new electric sedan that’s impressive. Lucid air is competing with the model S. I don’t blame them for raising prices but competition will drive them down.
Lucid lol. The competition is Toyota.
Actually Ford is ramping up EV production. As is VW. Toyota’s first EV had Tesla’s drivetrain. Toyota is about 5 years behind all the other auto makers. Toyota just hasn’t fully committed to EVs.
Just got the Mustang Mach-e long range and love it!!! There are good alternatives to Tesla.
Just curious: what’s your safety score?
Hopefully you should get FSD Beta in the next few months once reliability improves. They are planning to release to 95 scores with the current version (10.11)
As far as I understand your safety score is not affected just by using the brake instead of regen. But it is possible to brake harder with the pedal and that will affect your score.
From Tesla’s website:
“Hard braking is defined as backward acceleration, measured by your Tesla vehicle, in excess of 0.3g. This is the same as a decrease in the vehicle’s speed larger than 6.7 mph, in one second.”
The score is affected by a bunch of things. Like FCW (Forward Collision Warning). And the Tesla implementation of FCW is terrible. It doesn’t take into account that a human is driving, and a human can see a driveway into a shopping center, and a human can see someone signaling right, and a human can see the car ahead turning right, and can easily judge that there is no need to brake because the car ahead will be long gone by the time the Tesla gets there. Meanwhile, FCW alerts many times in that scenario because the Tesla still sees the car ahead, and the car ahead is slowing to turn.
@dan. Are you saying you are not happy with your Tesla anymore? I ordered a model 3 a few months ago. Are you not recommending it anymore?
You wrote it seems like the federal rebate is being revived. Where did you see that? Thank you
Overall I’m very happy with it. I’m just disappointed that the software took a step backwards.
The SW has definitely had issues lately. I’ve noticed a bunch of bugs, including some big safety-related ones (like not showing rear view while driving back). I don’t even know how to formally report the bugs to Tesla!
I’ve been waiting 6 months for my first Tesla. Will they honor the price on my purchase order or charge me the new higher price??
They will honor the price from the time of reservation, as long as you don’t change your order
I have a model 3 on order from mid September, how does it work selling on gray market?
Dumbest concept for cars. Any savings is prepaid in the price of a car. You get a model 3 and you basically have a Honda Accord you over paid $15K for
No amount of gas savings makes it worth it and enjoy waiting for 30 minutes for your car to recharge on a round trip
What Honda Accord can do 0 to 60 in 4 seconds?
The one that has a full glass roof and heated rear seats.
The economics of an EV car nowadays make absolutely no sense for most people even at $4.25/gal. Take a Hyundai Kona ~12K (after tax credit) premium on a the EV Car. If someone drives 12K miles a year the difference between between charging costs and gasoline are ~3,350/year. So the breakeven on the car is ~3.75 years. At $3.25/gal that breakeven goes up to ~5 years, and at $2.55/gal (avg US gas price 2016-19) it’s ~6.25 years. And that is not accounting for time value of $$ or the extra interest paid on any loan.
The economics of the Tesla at the new prices are completely upside-down. Instead of a model 3 – a good comparison is a Mercedes A Class that apples for apples is ~$18K less. Instead of a model S LR, an Audi A7 will run ~25K less. That’s a huge premium on car manufacturer that data shows us has ranked 27 out of 30 in JD Power dependability surveys and ranked behind Jeep! It just shows that marketing hype is effective and cognitive dissonance alive and well among consumer behavior.
For me, any EV will require to me to have, at the very least $2K of electrical work in my home. That is for a charging outlet in my garage as there is no 220v line there. Plus, there are very few charging stations in Central IL. The closest Tesla “dealership” is 150 miles from my home. Tesla is not even a contender for me at all.
Why not use a 110 outlet?
Meh, I remember the days (circa 2018) when seeing a Tesla on the road was a cool and exciting sighting. Today, every Tom’s River type d-bag seems to have a Tesla and it’s unfortunately long lost it’s appeal. ICE ftw!
Dan, you think it’s expensive by you?
Try to get a Tesla in Israel..
But in my opinion a good value for the money
I have a Tesla Model 3 with a long range battery. First, the battery isn’t really long range. Seems not to get nearly the amount of miles it’s supposed to. Second, I have had numerous instances where I am driving on cruise control on the highway and the car comes to an almost complete stop for NO reason, no car or anything in front of me. Luckily I put my foot immediately on the pedal because otherwise I would be rear ended by the car in back of me!
Alexander, one thing you fail to know is that everything runs off the battery unlike a gas car that has the battery and gas, so the air-conditioning, internet, mileage – basically all the functionality of the car get’s it’s energy from the battery so naturally the driving range is reduced. It seems shocking that you thought that the range was depleted only by driving.
@Dan, you mentioned Grey market resales. Can you please provide more info?
I have 2 Rivian reservations from before the price increase (over 16k increase each) and I definitely don’t need one of them, maybe both
I find the consumerism of this whole post a bit distasteful. I understand this is a deals site, but most people cannot afford a tesla. The kvetching about features of a fancy car just seems a shallow these days.
Model 3 wasn’t made to be a fancy car, it was made to make EVs accessible to all. The “kvetching” is that the price has gone from 35K to 47K, into the realm of a fancy car.
The recent wave of price increases has little to do with inflation but more to do with keeping demand in check. If folks still buy the product then more money for tesla and if they don’t then that solves Tesla’s short term demand issue. Either way they win unless the competitors truly come out with a product and charging infra that rivals tesla, until then Tesla is in the driving seat and they will dictate the terms.
The entire auto industry has gone up in price. My used 10 year old Sienna is worth more than when I bought it. Nothing to do with Tesla and selling your car a profit is useless when to replace that car you will pay the inflated proces for another car – regardless of brand.
Raising prices is the only way to slow demand otherwise wait times would be 1 year plus. More profit means faster factories.
check out polestar 2 as an altenative. doesnt have the tech but is a great car and you can get in a week
You said looks like the EV Federal Rebate will be revived, can you elaborate? Is that in the near future, in 2022 etc?
I once heard that most of Tesla’s profit is not from the sale of actual cars (If I am wrong, I am sure Dan will correct me 😉 ). It makes sense that Tesla would want to start making a profit on the cars themselves to justify the stock price. Until some other company can make a better car and sell it for less, the prices will continue to climb until the market for electric cars is saturated (which won’t happen anytime soon).
Our order keeps getting pushed back further. It’s crazy!
I wanted to buy a Tesla for a long time. But since Elan comments in the last few months, I would never buy his cars.
Which comments where those?
But yet you drive a bmw.
Wow. You have ESP.
Seems logical. You don’t like the CEO of a company, you shoot yourself in there for and don’t buy the car you wanted. Makes sense? Make it make sense!
Elon Musk is great at putting his foot in his mouth…enough said.
Should I buy now so that I put the $600 I spend a month on gas towards my equity in a model 3 even though it’s an expensive purchase for me?
Also, how much is the cost of charging per 100 miles in NJ?
I made the order on the last day of the NJ 5k rebate, supposed to get delivered within 2 weeks. I would love to push off a bit still hoping for the Federal rebate but afraid they will cancel my order.
I would be interested if you are not interested in it
I think I can explain most of it. Cars are in short supply. All cars. With most manufacturers, the manufacturer sells to the dealers, and then the dealers mark it up and sell to the customer. Since there is short supply, the dealers have HUGE markups lately. I even saw a Ford F-150 Lightning that had an MSRP of $69,000 marked up by an ADDITIONAL $69,000 for the dealer to profit from. That’s because you can’t even order an F-150 Lightning right now, not for any price. Probably all of 2022 and much of 2023 production is already sold.
Now, Teslas are also in short supply, but there are no dealers as middlemen. So, some people are ordering a Tesla at MSRP (all Teslas sell at MSRP), and then selling them at a profit. Or even using them for a year or two and selling them at a profit. Last year when I bought my Tesla Model 3, I looked around for used ones, and even 2 year old used ones with 20k miles were selling for as much as, or even more than, a new one was selling for. So I ordered a new one and waited a few months for it to arrive.
So Tesla figures, why should the first customer capture all that profit? Instead simply raise the price of the car and get the profit themselves. Makes a lot of sense. Also, Tesla will immediately know when they’ve raised the prices too much … because obviously sales will slow down. If sales slow down such that they are lower than what can be produced, they will drop prices until equilibrium is reached.
I think this is better than what Ford is doing with the Mustang Mach-e. They have two problems with that car, one, they have a critical safety recall that is waiting for new parts and new software, and two, it isn’t profitable anymore because many components have gone up in price since they set MSRP. So Ford is in a huge bind, and they made a different decision than Tesla made. They aren’t raising prices, instead they simply stopped selling the car. Yes, they’ve actually instructed dealers to stop selling it for now. They said to stop selling because of the safety defect, but there are rumors that they also don’t want to sell too many more of them because they aren’t making any money on them anymore.
I have a a reservation in on a cyber truck. That might turn out to be a GREAT investment by the time the car is delivered.
He raised prices because he could because whether he wanted the Democrats to have total control he secretly enjoying this besides AOC and company the next person to benefit the most from super duper gas prices is Elon Musk the ultimate capitalist. Incredibly ironic!
Crack is whack. Nothing you said made any sense this reads like a Twitter bot post. The prices were raised to slow demand, we have friends who ordered a Y in November of last year who are now expected to get their cars in September-October of this year. At Tesla showrooms the floor is empty of cars, even the test drive cars are gone. Hopefully near the end of this year things will get better as a lot of new cars are released into the market from both Tesla and competitors
I got a model 3 for 40K minus 5K charge up NJ – thanks Dan!!
Yesir- picking mine up this week!
Own the stock not the car
inverted yield curve: stock price down – car price up 🙂
@dan all said and done how do you like the car? I have a reservation on the model 3 from before the price increase and debating if I should take the car (if not I would flip the reservation for a small profit)
Love it! Though I’m happy I bought it when I did.
The Tesla Model 3 standard range IS AVAILABLE for purchase, but the base sticker price for the 2022 model is substantially higher at almost 47K opposed to the 2021 model at 41K.
So it sounds like the new climate bill will bring the $7500 rebates back in play for Tesla. Any reason to be confident in that assumption? I have a Model 3 standard range that is currently showing delivery between Aug 26-Sept 9. If the rebate gets passed do you think I can put off purchase long enough to be able to receive the rebate? Speculation for sure but any advice?
Need to take delivery in 2023 for new rebate?
Anyone get their order from September 2021 canceled for not taking delivery?
BREAKING: @Tesla has reduced their car prices MASSIVELY in the US. Changes:
• Model 3 RWD: $43,990 (from $46,990, a 6.4% drop)
• Model 3 P: $53,990 ($62,990, 14.2% drop)
• Model Y Long Range: $52,990 (from $65,990, a 20% drop)
• Model Y P: $56,990 (from $69,990, a 23% drop)
Picked up in December. Got the $3750 credit and 10k free supercharging miles so not as bad as could have been. Feels pretty bad tho tbh.
Can you explain the tax credit a little?
Not familiar with how the tax credit works – is eligibility based on income for 2022 or 2023? Or in other words – if someone is eligible in early 2023 at the time of purchase based on 2022 AGI, and ends up earning above the AGI limits in 2023, are they still eligible for the credit?
Conversion thread is long, I might have missed this and it is important to double check this: you get $7.5 K credit if you owe taxes. If you owe no taxes, you get nothing; if you owe $3k in taxes, you only get 3K out of the $7.5K. Again, I hope I remember this correctly, it’s worth double checking.
If I buy in 2023 is the credit based on my 2022 agi or my 2023 agi when I file in 2024?
It’s based on the lower of the current year or previous year AGI.
Does this mean if my income in 2022 is not so high but my income in 2023 is then I won’t be eligible for the credit based on 2023?
Can we trust Tesla that MSRP for the tax credit will exclude the $6,000 for Enhanced Autopilot? Or should we order the car without and add Enhanced Autopilot after delivery?
When are they making mini vans?
In our dreams.
dont think base model 3 has the full tax credit
Sure it does.
It does now. It might not when the battery rules take effect.
Hence why you should get it now.
On average, what is the cost per month to charge a Tesla 3?
Depends on how much you drive and where you charge.
But it’s much less than gas.
Though in the winter you gotta charge it way more often than in the summer
Even when gas was cheaper?
Any guesses why they dropped suddenly? How quickly will this affect the used market? Do we have to pass on RWD in a snowy climate?
RWD in a snowy climate is an issue. Now all EV’s lose range in the battery when it’s cold weather. The RWD model 3 LFP battery loses even more range. Plus it’s 2 wheel drive and not 4 wheel drive. No fog lights and not premium audio.
With the above said if being used for local driving most of the time I would say it’s a very good option. RWD is better the FWD in the snow. Plus you can get snow tires which will help also.
I have a M3LR.
Snow tires on the RWD will be better than all season tires on the AWD.
In for 2 hope they ship!
Plus the state of NJ will give you $2,000 at the point of sale for a Tesla that’s under $55 MSRP till now only worked for Tesla model 3 standard range ,now should work for the y as well also combining all the above it’s really cheap now
Is the tax credit refundable?
No. Not refundable.
Will I be able to recieve the tax credit together with my tax return if I don’t pay that much in taxes? If not, will the tax credit be able to roll over for the next year?
No, there is no rolling of tax credits on 1040’s
Has the web filter issue been resolved? Any reliable solutions?
Is a Lease also eligible for the tax credit?
It basically went back to the regular prices from before the massive price hike
Will tesla drop the price for existing orders?
Checked my account online and the total price went down 5k on model Y 7 seat long range, price brake down show the 7 seating price 4k… it was 3k prior to price drop.
The tax credits are non-refundable and point of sale has not been implemented yet. So if you don’t owe the $7500 in federal tax you might not receive the credit.
Poor billionaires won’t be eligible now for 2 reasons
Even with the price cuts and tax credits it is still a long stretch from a pure economic sense to purchase even the base Tesla 3. A Civic LX has base price is 26,200 and Tesla is 36,500 after rebate. If a person drives 12K miles a year the fuel cost of the Civic would be $1200/year at $3.50/gal. Even if the electricity is free, the ROI is over 8.5 years. And that is not factoring time cost of $$ and additional return on that $10K over those 8.5 years.
Now if a person is just looking for a cool toy with some tech bells and whistles, then perhaps the Tesla makes sense. But, economically a high mileage ICE care is the way to go.
Factor in maintenance as well. Close to 0 on a Tesla.
But the bigger factor is that it’s much more enjoyable to drive a Tesla than a Civic. The Model 3 is an excellent car. Got mine in 2018 and it still feels brand new and gets new features weekly.
A civic is going to have close to zero maintenance too.
But the comparison is off, you wouldn’t compare a civic against an Avalon based on price alone, why would you against a tesla?
A Civic does not have zero maintenance after a decade of use.
A Tesla may only need new tires.
But I’m not the one that made the comparison.
That extra 10K invested in a series I bond would bring in ~$700/year. That would pay for a whole lot of maintenance if needed. The civic has basically no maintenance for two years and very little after that within the first 8. (Plus those 18-19 inch WR tires on the Tesla are whole lot more expensive than the 16 inch H rated rubber on the civic)
I’m all good with people buying whatever they want, I just work with valuations on deals all day. So this is natural to me.
A base model 3 is not an Avalon. Size wise and interior space wise they are almost mirrors. Telsa has more cargo space due to the frunk. The build quality is better on the Honda. Again, the reality is that people are rationalizing the EV through fuel cost/maintenance cost but what they are really buying is a peppy pop techmobile. C’est la vie on what people want to purchase, but economics is not the logical reason.
Well said, if you want to buy a Tesla, buy a Tesla, but don’t fool yourself and rationalize it, by saying that you save money because of the gas.
The Tesla model 3 is a far better car than the Civic LX!
Ask the person who paid just saw their 3 month old model 3 they bought lose 7-15K of value and are underwater in car loan at 5%+ interest rate. I guess cool toys are expensive. The used market already falling into an abyss for Tesla’s, this will accelerate it. The people who panic bought Tesla’s over the last 18 months just took a huge bath.
Are you seriously comparing a Civic to a Tesla??? Have you ever driven a Tesla??
I have driven a base model 3 RWD. Build quality wise I felt like I was in a cheap KIA. Lots and lots of low quality plastic. In the end an automobile is just an expense that is paid for transportation. The model 3 is a small sedan and is almost the same size in interior space, legroom, shoulder room as a Civic. Pop technology and better acceleration does not really affect whether someone gets from point a to b on an everyday basis. Teslas (and many other EV vehicles) are toys for the petite and moyenne bourgeoisie.
Sorry, but that’s absurd.
Teslas are a true pleasure to drive. And long drives are super easy and not fatiguing if you have EAP.
Any insight as far as car insurance? Is it true that Teslas are more expensive to insure vs. comparable non EV?
I have mine insured through Progressive. Currently pay $500 total per 6 months for our ’18 Model 3 and ’23 Ody.
Was curious about this too. I have the 21 odyssey and pay 70 a month or 420 for 6mo. I checked what it would cost to add the Y and total jumps to approx 1k for six months or 180 a month. Mind you, both listed as personal vehicles with 5k a year (not much driving).
All through GEICO.
Seems pretty reasonable, as I paid 176 in Maryland, solely for a nissan rogue, a couple years ago.
Ah, to live in Ohio. Vouchers, and cheap insurance. Used to live there, and moved to Michigan. Major sticker shock.
Should move from NYC just for that, currently paying $200 a month for a Accord and its considered a good price….
Anyone have experience with enhanced self-driving v. FSD? How do they compare? 15K for FSD seems expensive…
EAP for $6K is excellent. No need to spend $15K for FSD.
Thanks! Also worth mentioning that some states have additional incentives. I believe New Jersey offers between $2000 and $4000. Not sure if this would qualify for the $4000 incentive, since it needs to have an MSRP under $45000.
@Dan where do you get info that there is a lengthy process for Y <55k to get a 2k rebate?
I see 2k charge up deduction on my Y order.
I didn’t see the Model Y on the Charge Up NJ site.
I emailed Charge Up NJ and that’s what they told me.
But perhaps that’s bad info?
I guess question is if the list is the rules or an example of how the t&c are applied.
Looking at the NJ incentive stats they have an avg rebate amount of $2030 for model 3 over the past few months. So I’d imagine some people may be getting $4000 for old pricing. But you may be right that it’s manual.
Email chargeup with your screenshots and let us know what they say?
What does it show for the Model 3 RWD when you try to order?
Where do you see it on your order?
On the amount due. I have a VIN ready for pickup.
Are you sure Model Y All-Wheel Drive/Performance: is not eligible for tax credit. The MSRP limit for 3 row configuration is $80k.
There is no 7 passenger model y performance.
Thanks! Is there any Model Y 7 passenger trim that is eligible for EV credit?
Yes, the AWD.
FYI, Tesla wall connector , which is the best way to charge a Tesla, is not eligible for any rebate for installation in New Jersey
You need a NJ driver’s license in order to get the NJ credit. Simply registering your car in NJ won’t work
Any feedback on whether the performance is worth the extra $4K?
How is it just $4K extra?
Prob doesnt qualify for credit
I’m referring to model Y, 52,990 vs 56,990
But Model Y Performance doesn’t get a tax credit.
Do all these tax deductions work on a lease?
I believe so.
The Federal tax credit stays with the original owner not the lessee. It might bring down the cost of the lease, (if the owner passes it on) but cannot be claimed by the lessee. The NJ credit can be claimed by the lessee.
Do u have to take delivery by 3/31 or just place the order?
Yes, delivery. My story in 2018: I placed the order in December 2018 but they couldn’t deliver by the end of 2018 although, if I remember correctly, they promised. I got my deposit back and I canceled the order because I wouldn’t not have gotten full tax credit on my 2018 taxes.
Can you have someone in NJ buy the car who can get both tax credits and than sell it to someone
Came here looking for the answer to this. Did you ever figure it out @Stephen ?
Still waiting on the mini-van version
So, if you are a regular W-2 employee that calculates deductions so that you don’t owe taxes, you won’t get the tax credit unless you change your deductions to make you owe taxes? Is this the same for the New Jersey taxes as well, or could that be a refund? Please let me know if I am getting that correctly.
No. You will get a refund of those withheld taxes.
Refund can be towards your 2022 tax return or will have to wait until 2023 return?
Easy to be confused by this. A regular W-2 employee who calculates deductions so that they “don’t owe taxes” has simply pre-paid taxes. You can get that money back as a refund if you overpaid, and this tax credit would mean that you overpaid even more.
Very different from actually not owing taxes, which means that your tax form shows a $0 for “total tax” (e.g. the amount shown on line 24 of your 1040)
Yes? But don’t you (kind of) have to pre-pay taxes if you are a regular employee? I’m always charged some penalty fees (not much) because I “owe” a little more.
Does the model Y get the TAX credit even if it’s a 7 seater?
Do you pay sales tax when purchasing an EV? Federal? NYS?
Are you sure about the NJ rebate. Seems like it’s not currently active post Jan 1, 2023
It is. Only PHEV ended.
Can you get more than 1 ev 7,500 credit in a year. I’m buying bolt from a lease and interested in getting a tesla.
Dan, does the $7,500 tax credit apply for the self-employment tax (Medicare and SS?) Thanks
How do you have 7.5k in SE tax and not income tax?
Have both. However, the income tax is typically lower than $7,500 based on write-offs, hence the question.
Probably best addressed to your accountant.
You are self employed. Generally you can’t apply nonrefundable credits against social Security tax. Based on what a read on HR Web site you can’t carry it forward so it a use it or lose it.
“Who qualifies for the Clean Vehicle Credit?
The Clean Vehicle Credit applies to purchasers of an electric drive motor vehicle meeting certain specifications. It’s worth determining if you qualify, as the credit is worth up to $7,500. The Clean Vehicle Credit can be claimed for vehicles placed in service after December 31, 2022, and doesn’t apply to cars bought after December 31, 2032. The credit is non-refundable, so you won’t get a refund for the unused portion of it. In addition, you can’t carry the credit over to your next year’s return.”
Question to Tesla owners: my wife is afraid of driving in the city and highway. Would buying a Tesla enable her to drive without really driving? Does this autopilot work in the city?
No, you need the FSD option for $15,000 for city driving. And tt’s still very much in beta testing.
But Teslas do great for highway driving, especially if you get the $6,000 EAP option.
Do I understand correctly that the Tesla has a browser that can’t be filtered?
If so, that’s a deal breaker for me.
The browser needs a subscription (like $10 a month). The first 30 days are free, and then the browser won’t work if you dont pay the subscription. BUT it will work if you connect it to wifi. So, if someone drives it anywhere that they can access wifi, it’s not filtered
I always wondered about that too. So many frum people who would never have an unfiltered smartphone are proud owners of a Tesla…
Is it certain that the Tesla 3 won’t meet the battery sourcing rules once they go into effect (presumably in March)? If so, at that point they will only qualify for $3750 credit, correct?
How long from when you place an order until delivery when selecting a car from their list of inventory?
If from existing inventory I would imagine within a week or less. Maybe even next day. Just go and pick it up.
I just got a model 3 RWD in NJ. The MSRP needs to be under 45K to be eligible for the 4K credit, so getting the 19 inch wheels or paying more than $1100 for the color (i.e. black) would put you over.
I got the 2K credit
i live in ny but work in nj. is there a way for me to register in new jersey and get the 4k. my tesla is ready on sunday, i had ordered it to my ny addres but maybe can change it
Can the 6k package be added afterwards?
The 6K for autopilot doesn’t count towards the MSRP.
Tesla told me it does. They said the Enhanced AP is included and I was not eligible for the rebate (even 2k) on the model 3 long range with EAP
Can always add it later.
Was is it 2k credit instead of 4k because it was above 45k MSRP?
I found one that is :
Your Model 3
Is the destination fee and order fee calculated into the MSRP?
You should be good for 4K with that, neither the destination fee nor the order fee goes into the vehicle’s MSRP.
Because he’s not coming on a donkey
How do you know?
How do you not?
Would i qualify for the federal tax rebate if I used it 9-10 years ago ( bought a Nissan leaf)?
Thanks – Dan. How often can you requalify for the federal tax rebate. Every year? How far apart ?
I believe every year. Then again they may change the rules in the future.
FYI Model Y increased with $500
Any Tesla Owners here? Does it bother you that there’s no Android Auto?
It’s an awesome car. Would never go back.
Have it only 3 days and I love it!!!
Agree with Reb Dan. I use my phone for Waze. I do not waste my time with the Tesla navigation.
Have you tried it? I was a diehard fan of ApplePlay on my previous cars and it was almost a deal breaker when I found out Tesla’s didn’t have it.
Let’s just say – I haven’t used Waze in a long time.
When I first got my Tesla, I used to have them both open at the same time, but after doing that for some time, I noticed that Tesla nav had better/quicker routes many times! This is in addition to the obvious benefits (supercharger stations, battery life upon arrival etc)
The one real downside is the loss of “cop alerts”, but for me personally, it’s not a big deal anymore – I cruise on autopilot and no real need for speeding (most of the time )
I have Model Ys and previously owned Model 3.
Car is amazing!
This is so stupid — Gov’t paying you to buy things
Could you apply for the $7500 tax credit when filing already this year, or only in 2024?
Only in 2024 for 2023 year taxes. so next year
Can the NJ rebate be applied to a lease? What about the fed tax credit?
Any way to get the destination fee waived? Adding another 1390
Have they figured out a way to filter the web browser?
If there are enough people tell Tesla they will buy the car only with a filtered browser then maybe it can happen. This is my opinion.
There is a lot of info out there about Tesla’s and EV’s in general.
With the tax credit + Tesla check out Bearded Tesla Guy channel out.
Another decent content creator for Tesla is this fellow.
Another decent creator for Tesla
If you are new to Tesla or thinking of getting a Tesla check out this video
“Ultimate Tesla Model 3/Y Owner’s Guide (2023)”
Many of your Tesla questions will be answered by watching these creators videos. Keep in mind Tesla does make updates around once a month. Some of the channels above usually go over them so you know what to watch out for. Besides Tesla also tells you what was updated.
Now charging your EV/Tesla is entire topic in itself. One fellow on top of this is this channel
You may need to go back to some old videos about charging options for Tesla’s.
there is commercial clean vehicle credit that circumvents the agi limits
all model Y’s now qualify for $7,500 tax credit as well as Ford Mach-E which now starts at $45,995
If having a NJ resident buy it with my funds and then they sell it to me for a dollar and I register in NY, would NY get any sales tax?
No but you might get arrested for tax fraud
Can your purchase the car at the end of the leases?
How much is the buyout after the 36 months.
No buyout option
For the lease deals, no need to purchase and receive car by March deadline. There is loophole, the battery requirements are not for leases.
Solid deal but – keep in mind there is no buy out option on tesla leases.
You forgo the option to buy your car at the end of the lease and must return it to Tesla after the lease term.
You can get the Chevy Bolt EV that has a MSRP of 26,500 with charge up incentives you only paid $113 a month
Can you share more details?
the 7500 is only if I have federal tax liability( and then it goes as credit towards that ) or it comes off price of the car at time of purchase ?
This year it’s a tax credit Next year it will be possible for the seller of the car to get the credit and reduce your purchase price.
Trying to do the lease but shows $4500 down. Is that right? I don’t see Dan mention anything about down payment
Down payment is about $1550 credit will show on final lease application. Don’t sign if it’s not there
Thanks for that info. I can confirm its correct. It showed up after i ordered once I was in the apply for lease financing. Total downpayment 1654 + 495 for order fee and mobile charger.
when i go to Tesla website in order to order a car for lease it says you still need 4500 down even with getting 4000 rebate
It doesn’t include the rebate as the website is not designed for the NJ a program but you will see it in tribal lease application per others who took delivery successfully. Don’t sign if it’s not there
I would love to purchase it. It would make my driving much easier, but I give up much more than a Tesla to live a Torah life. I don’t understand how people who filter everything suddenly are okay with a Tesla.
Why does a Tesla need a filter?
@Dan If I just want a car to get me from point a to b,can you please figure out with all the federal and NJ rebates what’s the absolutely cheapest car to buy or lease?
Damage waiver extra?
I beleive its asur to buy a tesla cause there is no way to filter the internet and all gedolim said that theres no heter whatsoever for open internet
If you don’t pay for premium connectivity then you don’t have YouTube/browser and all the junk…
You or one of your kids can just pull up to any Cofee shop etc and connect to their open hot spot . It’s a bomb waiting to go off . Only need premium when not around wifi network
We had major power outages the last week in southern Michigan. All the electric cars were completely useless. Almost all chargers in my area were offline. I had to give rides to multiple people that were stuck with a dead electric car in their driveway. Just something to think about. We’re seeing severe weather much more often these days.
Is there a difference if I order online or go into a dealer? Any reason to do one over the other?
NJ resident here, I reached out to Tesla & they told me the 4K can only be applied to the purchase price, not the down payment. Anyone have luck with this or a workaround?
Sales reps are not super educated and frequently wrong. You will get The credit if Funding is still in place and you meet all the requirements.
+1 I also was misadvised by two reps
Is this only for Tesla or any electric vehicle?
Everyone who ordered got the email and signed the terms? Sounds like the rebate is still not confirmed eligible for some or all models
I wouldn’t be too concerned as I’ve seen multiple reports of people taking delivery with all incentives in place
Can you get more than 10k miles on the lease?