Update: Chaim Rozen and Ben Edelman share that they have responded to Virgin’s claims, which you can download here. You can comment on the original complaint, Virgin’s response, and the response back to Virgin in the docket here by clicking on comment next to any reply. Ben notes that relevant responses are always helpful!
In the response, they skewer Virgin for its claims of reasonable action, while failing to point out anything suspicious about Chaim’s booking for his immediate family, who share his last name. They also point out that Virgin doesn’t even claim that a human looked into the situation, despite Chaim repeatedly claiming his innocence.
Finally, they take issue with Virgin unilaterally cancelling flights without informing customers that their tickets are cancelled, which violates DOT rules and reasonableness.
Virgin acted in an unfair and deceptive manner on multiple occasions with their unfounded allegations of loyalty fraud. Hopefully, the DOT holds Virgin Atlantic accountable for its actions and the airline makes real changes going forward.
I have written many times about informal and formal DOT complaints. Many DansDeals readers have taken advantage of those methods to be made whole and one reader’s complaint led to the DOT fining Turkish Airlines for $1,300,000.
Before COVID, I found that informal complaints almost always received a prompt response and follow-up from the airline and the DOT. Nowadays, it seems that the DOT rarely follows up on informal complaints, but they do follow up on formal complaints, and airlines take those more seriously.
I spoke with longtime DansDeals reader Chaim Rozen about his recent complaint against Virgin Atlantic.
Chaim shared that while studying in Crown Heights’ 770 Kvutza, he learned about DansDeals from friends and opened multiple credit cards that he read about on DansDeals to accumulate miles. Chaim follows us on WhatsApp and was thrilled when I reached out to him to talk about his case. He also noted that he is a cousin of Rabbi Kuti, who is helping us distribute Tefilin to IDF soldiers, small world indeed!
His parents and younger brother live in Israel and had booked an El Al flight from Tel Aviv to NYC for the Tishrei holidays and had return flights on British Airways. That went sideways when Iran sent a massive barrage of missiles to Israel, and foreign airlines cancelled flights. By then, El Al flights were full, but they decided to go L’chatchila ariber with the hope of figuring out a solution in due time.
And sure enough, Chaim found a solution for them right after the Tishrei holidays. He found a Delta award flight to Milan bookable with Virgin Atlantic miles, and availability from Milan to Tel Aviv on El Al.
He already opened a Virgin Atlantic account in December 2023, and on 10/26/24 transferred 65K points from Chase into 91K Virgin Atlantic points, thanks to a 40% transfer bonus that he read about on DansDeals. He then used those points to book 3 tickets on Delta to Milan for travel on 10/28/24.
However, when he went to check them in online for the Delta flight on 10/28, he encountered an error. He called Delta, only to learn that Virgin Atlantic had canceled their flights, without telling anyone. He was also locked out of his Virgin Atlantic account. Virgin Atlantic said he would have to email the fraud team, and that it would take days to receive a response. How would his parents and brother get home? Too bad, so sad, was Virgin’s response.
Without days to spare, he had to scramble to find them another flight to Milan, or else risk losing the El Al tickets they had booked. Luckily, he found the same Delta flight was bookable via Air France Flying Blue, so with little time to spare, he transferred another 69K Chase points to Air France and booked them on the Delta flight.
Virgin Atlantic’s fraud team said that the account and been used fraudulently, and that the tickets and points were forfeited. He had never sold any points, done anything fraudulently, or even booked a non-relative before, and was in shock from that response. But Virgin said that their decision was final, despite the passengers having his last name and offering to send in his birth certificate to prove the parental and sibling relationships.
Chaim read all about DOT complaints on DansDeals, and filed an informal complaint against Virgin on 11/10/24. That only resulted in further stonewalling by Virgin’s fraud team.
So, he reached out to Ben Edelmen for help crafting a formal DOT complaint against Virgin Atlantic, which he filed on 4/9/25 along with an exhibit of Virgin’s stonewalling.
On 4/16, Virgin requested additional time to investigate and respond, which Chaim granted.
On 4/28, Virgin responded that they restored the 91,000 points to his account, and offered a bonus 69,000 points plus a payment of $96.90 to make up for the points he transferred to Air France and taxes paid for those tickets, plus a goodwill offer of 31,000 points, but he would have to agree to volnatrily withdraw the formal complaint with the DOT.
Chaim refused that offer, stating that he wanted the DOT to review the case so that others in the same situation would be helped, and to ensure full transparency into Virgin’s actions.
A Virgin VP emailed him on 5/13, offering “sincere apologies” for the disruption and asked for a phone call.
Chaim responded that this was the first apology he received in the course of the entire saga and that he preferred to continue the conversation over email. He stated that he filed the formal complaint in hopes that Virgin would change its fraud practices, as their actions were indefensible.
He never heard back from the VP.
Instead, Virgin responded to the DOT on May 22 that the airline has sophisticated fraud detection systems, which flagged this booking for potential fraud, and that they can’t disclose the reason, as doing so would allow fraudsters to take advantage of the airline. As their terms state that Virgin points belong to Virgin, they can rightfully be revoked at any time. Virgin said they reactivated Chaim’s account with 91,000 miles as goodwill, but not out of obligation.
Virgin also says it didn’t violate DOT rules requiring a refund for cancelled flights, as the flight operated on time. That claim is bogus and clearly violates the DOT’s ruling on unfair practices requiring a prompt refund. The DOT rules in §399.80 about unfair and deceptive practices that such practices include, “Failing or refusing to make proper refunds promptly when service cannot be performed as contracted or representing that such refunds are obtainable only at some other point, thus depriving persons of the immediate use of the money to arrange other transportation.”
Virgin can invent all the terms it wants to justify its action, but it’s still in violation of §399.80.
All that being said, Virgin does state that it has decided to enhance and invest in its fraud tools and has revised its procedures so that tickets flagged for fraud in the future can be discussed with the fraud team. That will allow customers to show that there was no fraud, which, incredibly, wasn’t an option until now. That’s a positive development!
Virgin concludes by requesting that the DOT dismiss the complaint. Doing so would allow airlines to claim fraud without any proof and cancel tickets without cause, and the DOT should deny this request. Just because an airline creates terms that allow them to do this doesn’t mean they’re not in violation of DOT requirements against unfair and deceptive practices.
Virgin also requests that the DOT deny all requests for compensation and decline to investigate whether Virgin’s fraud claims also affected other innocent parties.
Hopefully, the DOT will deny Virgin’s requests and gets to the bottom of this. It sure seems like Virgin Atlantic’s fraud department is the one committing fraud here.
Chaim says that he is working with Ben Edelman on crafting a response to Virgin’s DOT response.
I commend Chaim for declining Virgin’s settlement offer, opting to allow the DOT to investigate what is going on at Virgin Atlantic.
Have you been the victim of Virgin Atlantic’s or another airline’s fraud department? Be sure to file a formal DOT complaint against them!
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63 Comments On "[Reader Responds To Virgin’s Claims, You Can Respond As Well!] After DansDeals’ Reader Formal DOT Complaint, Virgin Atlantic Tries To Justify Fraudulent Actions By Its Fraud Department"
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I have the same situation! Booked with VS points and only when we were at the airport they told us we can’t use the tickets and cancelled our return ticket too. Costed us 3k at the airport one way because of the ridiculous taxes out of UK. What is the difference between informal and formal DOT complain?
Crazy. Be sure to pursue them with the DOT.
You can start with an informal complaint, but these days, you rarely reach people that are empowered to fix things with an informal complaint.
A formal complaint requires a full answer from the airline to the DOT and can lead to DOT penalties against the airline.
More info:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/informal-dot-complaint-not-helping-dansdeals-reader-won-case-airline-formal-dot-complaint/
https://www.benedelman.org/dot-complaints/
This is infuriating to read. Good going, Chaim. They sure messed with the wrong guy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the flagging system has a discriminatory component to it, that they don’t wish to divulge.
I wonder if reaching out to Richard Branson would be helpful.
This reminds me of when barclays closed my account with no warning and took away 800k points without any explanation. They said it has to do with spending patterns and that in terms and conditions they have the right to take away points without explanations. I wonder if there is a way to get them back.
File a CFPB complaint.
Just had this with Capital one. shut down my accounts and confiscated approx. 5 Million points, I filed a claim with BBB, and if it doesn’t work I will sue them for NY State law Section 520
@Danfan – Just keep me in the loop and let me know where this is heading. I did have the same story, Cap one Confiscated 1 Mil Miles.
I did file a complaint with CFPB, and lost, They could not help me. Same for BBB.
Im Lookijng into Suig them – and would like to see where you are going with this here.
Having read the pleadings and reading between the lines, it seems that when the airline said “flagged this booking for potential fraud” it was misdirecting a little bit. Because it is self-evident that the booking was not fraudulent, given the same last names, and the provenance of the miles.
What they are really saying is that Chaim himself is suspect, for whatever reason. Maybe he or his email address was flagged at another airline and the software vendor put 2 + 2 together, to red flag him at Virgin Atlantic. Of course, that is not what fraudulent activity means under the terms and conditions. (Virgin Atlantic can’t revoke your points just because you supposedly defrauded someone else.)
The little bit at the end of the airline’s response to the complaint about investing in better fraud detection betrays that they know they screwed up and are using junk fraud detection.
If you want to push the airline into a corner, propose that they only show the government their super duper fraud indicator (“in camera review,” in the judge/court context) and see what they say. I suspect the government wouldn’t be impressed with the logic or data that produced this ruckus.
Smart. Very smart, Chaim & Benjamin.
“ Perhaps Virgin could convince the Department to allow it to file its methods with the Department ex parte, visible neither to the Complainant nor to the public, as the Department sometimes allows.”
I had the same experience last year no notice of my flights being cancelled when I booked a flight for my parents. My parents had to cancel their trip because of this. They closed my account, took my points and claimed my account was used for fraud. After emailing them they said they will not reinstate my account and that decision was final. Please help me.
File a DOT informal complaint, followed by a formal complaint if that doesn’t work.
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/informal-dot-complaint-not-helping-dansdeals-reader-won-case-airline-formal-dot-complaint/
I had with Virgin that they suspended my account and after I emailed the CEO Shai Weiss I received a phone call from one of his PA and they reopened my account
[email protected]
Please keep us updated.
Gut Yom tov
For sure, but the DOT operates very slowly. It took over 4 years for the DOT to fine Turkish Airlines $1.3M after a DansDeals reader complaint:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/dot/sky-high-consequences-how-a-dansdeals-readers-dot-complaint-led-to-a-1300000-fine-for-turkish-airlines/
i had the same story how do u file a formal complaint??
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/informal-dot-complaint-not-helping-dansdeals-reader-won-case-airline-formal-dot-complaint/
https://www.benedelman.org/dot-complaints/
I had with Virgin that they suspended my account and after I emailed the CEO Shai Weiss I received a phone call from one of his PA and they reopened my account
[email protected]
I had and actually still have exactly the same situation with no end game? @DAN can you pls reach out to me I’ll be more then happy to join a class action lawsuit
File a complaint.
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/informal-dot-complaint-not-helping-dansdeals-reader-won-case-airline-formal-dot-complaint/
https://www.benedelman.org/dot-complaints/
I had with Virgin that they suspended my account and after I emailed the CEO Shai Weiss I received a phone call from one of his PA and they reopened my account
[email protected]
Has anyone had this issue with El Al tickets? If my ticket shows confirmed on the El Al app is there still reason for concern?
Booked with Virgin points?
Yes
They can always decide to cancel it, so just keep an eye on it and make sure you don’t have any fraudulent activity on your account that could trigger a review.
Argh used my wife’s account to book tickets for myself and my son, so different last name . So far still shows confirmed but I guess I’m in the hot seat? Anyone have any DPs on how close in they cancelled your tickets?
For context, these tickets were booked 6 months ago
great stuff!
Go, Chaim, go!
Deregulation is great…until you actually need someone to enforce the rules.
Thank you Dan for expanding in this issue, and thank you Chaim for taking the long route.
The DOT should also be pressured to demand answers on why they don’t need to send cancelation notification (even if there was suspected fraud!), causing passenger huge losses when stranded at the airport needing to find instant alternatives.
Virgin has undoubtedly stolen hundreds of millions of miles (if not more) from innocent people after they charged the banks for their miles. They should be brought to justice.
Dan, surely you can reach Mr. Weiss about this.
Coming from you he will probably take it seriusly.
will you try contacting him?
But why not get on the phone with the VP and see what he has to say?
Exactly the same thing she could write in an email.
well for one thing emails absolutely suck. why do people love hiding behind computers. Get on the phone, record the call, and deuce it out in real time.
Please update the result!! I can’t wait to hear what happens!!
my last email sent to VA fraud team about a year ago, I did not get a response, here goes…
To whom this may concern at the Virgin Atlantic loyalty program fraud department.
Hi, my name is ****, please review the following conversation and reply with an explanation. Thank you.
On April 11, I sent the following email to Virgin Atlantic customer care:
Hi,
My name is ****, I was denied boarding to Miami yesterday on booking reference E2L8JF, I was told it was canceled by the fraud department and I should reach out to you about it.
I have no idea what kind of fraud you were suspecting, I have used my own points to fly myself, and there was no fraud involved whatsoever.
The cancellation of my ticket has very badly affected my schedule, as it was the last direct flight to Miami on wednesday, and the agent wasn’t even letting me buy a cash ticket, claiming I was too late for that, (it was about an hour and a half before the flight). Please take into account that it took me more than 2 hours to get to LHR from my house, and I had to return all the way, I also had to extend my car rental which wasn’t cheap, and I missed a great deal by not getting to Miami in time. This has deeply affected me, and I am really really upset at Virgin.
I would kindly request the following from you.
1. An explanation, I want to understand your side, how you feel you can treat your customers like that, not even notifying me that the ticket has been canceled, dragging me out all the way to Heathrow just to punch me in the face, and secondly I want to know what you thought I did wrong, so I can avoid that in the future (if I’ll ever fly Virgin again…).
2. I want a full refund for my points and taxes I paid.
3. I want compensation, to compensate me for all I had to go through because of you, (although I doubt you can properly compensate me for what I went through).
I hope you take my letter seriously, and give me trust in Virgin Atlantic again. for now though, I am flying to Miami without you.
I am waiting for your prompt response.
*****
On April 16 I got the following response:
Hello ****
I hope this email finds you well and in high spirits.
I’ve heard back from our Loyalty and Fraud team regarding the concerns you raised.
The booking was cancelled due suspected fraud. Our team have a duty to carry out fraud checks diligently. Fraudulent activities can have serious repercussions for our company and our reputation. We remain vigilant and proactive in identifying and preventing any potential instances of fraud.
As per our policy, we won’t send a notification if a booking is cancelled, and I deeply regret any inconvenience caused.
If you breach any of the Flying Club Terms or other requirements contained on our website may result in denial of travel and/or redemption of Rewards and cancellation of all Miles, Rewards, and termination of Programme membership. For more information, please click on the link below.
Flying Club Fraud | Virgin Atlantic
Having checked, I can see that you received a full refund on 11th April, please note it may take up to 21 days for the money to appear on your account.
As you’ve breached our Terms and Conditions, I regret to inform you we’re not liable to pay any compensation or provide any gestures, and I’m sorry for any further disappointment caused.
Thanks again for getting in touch and I do apologise that I could not provide you with a more favourable response.
Kind regards,
Maria Cruickshank
Customer Care
Virgin Atlantic
http://www.virginatlantic.com
I responded right away:
Hi Maria, Thanks for getting back to me promptly.
I did see the refund to my credit card, thank you for that.
However, you failed to clarify how I breached the Virgin Atlantic terms and conditions, I have carefully reviewed them in the link you sent along in the email, and I can’t see anything I did wrong. Please kindly reply with a clearer explanation and underline the terms you say I have breached.
Thank you, and I am waiting for your response.
*****
And now I got this reply:
Hello *****
Thank you for getting back in touch, I hope you’re well.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the details that you’re requesting, and I am truly sorry.
If you wish to discuss this further and have your account closure reviewed, then please email [email protected].
Thanks for contacting the Customer Care team and I am so sorry I couldn’t be of any more assistance.
Kind regards,
Maria Cruickshank
Customer Care
Virgin Atlantic
http://www.virginatlantic.com
So here I am asking you at the fraud department to explain what went wrong and what part of this booking was fraudulent or a breach of the terms and conditions of Virgin Atlantic’s loyalty program.
I am waiting for your prompt response.
*****
File a DOT complaint.
I filed an informal complaint against Avianca for failing to disclose that their “FlexTicket fare” for which I paid extra miles, was not really flexible at all. In fact, after 4 separate HUCA calls to ask them how and when my points would be refunded once I cancelled my ticket, they eventually agreed to refund them if I paid an extra $30 fee for this privilege! Stupidly, I agreed to this, and was assured my points would be redeposited within 72 hours. That was a month ago! It’s hard to believe how difficult it is to cancel a “flexible” award ticket, compared to any US airline.
I had a similar experience and I emailed them threatening to file a formal DOT complaint and they reinstated my account after 1 year of stonewalling and no response to my emails.
Thank you Dan!
Had a similar incident. I had a Delta flight from TLV to JFK for last September when they cancelled they supposedly rebooked me on ElAl everything seemed to be normal as I got an email 24hr before to check in, when I arrived at the airport the rep at the check in desk said that there isnt any ticket on my passport and that Delta hadnt rebooked me on ElAl at all, after long waitieg tiees for a delta rep they told me it is ticketed and that I should go to the DELTA desk even that there isnt since teeir flights were canceled. @Dan what can I do for this
Hello, can I file DOT Complaint if an airline refuses to pay me compensation under the European travel law?
Yes. Maybe try airhelp.com etc. first.
https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/
i had the same issue, my brother in law was stuck in paris and i booked him on virgin, but on my case i buyed the points with my credit card, so the minimum what they are required to do is to refund the money paid for the points
hi i had the same story and i had transferred the points from chase so i called chase and they gave me back the points!
Months ago I commented on a Virgin transfer bonus post my story..
I booked for my family tickets to london, They were denied check-in, agent said they would only be able to board if I come down in the airport with my ID and card used for taxes.
Luckily I made it on time and after confirming my ID and my credit card, they started with multiple other questions they wanted me to confirm date of birth for all travelers, later they said that they anyways suspect fraud agent specified your Jewish people always do fraud
Ngl, this is one of my suspicions.
Kosher meal notation = higher odds that you get the special Virgin Atlantic cancelation treatment.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this fraud detection “feature” started or ramped up after October 7th.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if it is later discovered that anti-Semitism was coded into the program. Activists at old Twitter and Facebook do (or used to do) stuff like that all the time.
Would I have a case if Virgin Atlantic from TLV to JFK with stop on LHR (booked with Virgin points) – first leg was delayed with partner EL AL causing us to be rebooked but not until the following night. No kosher food was offered. Not to mention they kep cancelling and rebooking us – causing us to not have kosher food on the flights either.
Yes. 600 Euro per person under EU261. I had a similar event when I submitted the compensation claim and Virgin were HORRIBLE. Emails and emails of lies. Eventually I filed with ADR and they found in my favor. Got 5 x 600 Euro for the 5 tickets on the reservation. They essentially said that their T and Cs gave them a carte blanche to do whatever they wanted in terms of cancelling flights / rebooking.
Unbelievable story. So incredibly frustrating.
Related question:
Hope someone can help me with an airline contact info question. Tried all my regular sources. Trying to get a response from Bluebird airlines re a complaint/claim for flight cancelation re the European traveler rights and they are non-responsive. Incident happened in Spain if that is relevant. Spain’s site is all in Spanish which is hard to navigate. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.
The emails I sent to were [email protected] and their legal counsel who is in Israel Ifat Steinberg.
Thank you!
Can I file a claim if I booked for someone else using my account?
Yes
I was traveling last summer with the family and American cancelled my flight at 3 am over 6 hours delay. It was their fault. After a long email fight they finally gave a little compensation. I incurred a bunch of other expenses which they refused to compensate for. Can i still file a complaint with the DOT 11 months later and after i took the 2 $75 pp?
You should have claimed compensation of 600 Euro per person under EU261. All the airlines are ****bags when it comes to this. They will say anything to deny having to pay out…
Compensation is only for european flights not US flights, so if your Flight origin was the US you wont get anything as per Law
I have a flight with VS coming up
Can I do anything to ensure I don’t get cancelled?
How do I protect myself?
Thanks!
Travel Insurance ? You probably have some level of support via your credit card you used to pay for the fees – even if a miles booking
Same thing happened to me. Booked for a friend with my Virgin points and cc, Virgin cancelled flights without notifying either of us, locked my account and confiscated my points. Virgin gives same “loyalty fraud tool” excuse, will not give me any specific accusation, they are not budging. Tried several methods, emailed loyalty fraud and executive team, DOT informal complaint, BBB complaint, none of them got me anywhere. AviationADR (UK airline dispute resolution) is still in adjudication. I will now file a DOT formal complaint. Is there anything else I can and should do?
You can add a comment in the meantime to this Docket
Has anyone had this issue with El Al tickets booked with Qantas Airlines points? Qantas made a hold on my account 2 months ago due to fraud activities that they claim, and its still on review. but my ticket shows confirmed on Qantas app and on the El Al app is there a reason for concern? tickets are next week
My father had the same exact story with Virgin around 3 years ago. He booked flights for the whole family with his Amex points and Virgin cancelled the tickets and took away the points without notifying him that they were cancelled. Thank you hashem that he by chance wanted to check something about seats which made him realize that they were cancelled. He tried to speak to them but there was no one to talk to. Out of desperation he went down to JFK airport to speak to a supervisor and show who he is and that everything was legit and all he had to say was “sir, your tickets were cancelled already what do you want me to do”. He ended up booking on United out of pocket for a lot of money being that it was last minute. I’m so happy that someone is finally taking action against them.
You can add a comment with your story to this Docket