[Update: TRO Denied] NY Has Banned Sleep Away Camps This Summer Due To COVID-19

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Update, 7/6: The US District Court for the Northern District of New York has denied the longshot TRO filed by the camps. “The Court finds that granting injunctive relief to open overnight summer camps runs contrary to the public interest in stopping the spread of the COVID-19 virus.”

As such, overnight camps will not be allowed to legally operate in NY this summer.

Update, 6/12: This is now confirmed, NY will not allow sleep away camps to open this summer. The news was dropped on Friday at 5pm, which takes from the airlines devaluation playbook of when to drop bad news with the least resistance and negative PR.


Originally posted on 6/10:

This is still a rumor for now, but I’ve heard from a couple of good sources that NY Governor Cuomo will announce that he will not allow sleep away camps to open this summer in New York.

A final decision is expected this week.

NY is allowing day camps to operate, but under a very strict set of rules.

Some NY sleep away camps have already announced plans to move to Florida, New Hampshire, or Pennsylvania for the year.

Will you send your kids to an out of state program this summer or what will you do with kids that were planning to go to a NY sleep away camp?

You can discuss coronavirus and how it’s affecting your life on the dedicated COVID-19 board on DDF here.

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306 Comments On "[Update: TRO Denied] NY Has Banned Sleep Away Camps This Summer Due To COVID-19"

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K

Dan – what camps are moving to Florida? What are your sources for Cuomo?

Moe

Rumors, rumors, rumors.

David

Camps decided too just open without his authority.
Time to just bycot this horrible moron

NTorch

If you call the camp a riot they wont stop you from having it.

Itchakadoozie

NTorch for Mayor, Governor, and MakeSenseMan!

Liz

I heard this rumor as well. Time will tell…

Yehudah

Staying home

Juryduty

Has there been any source that’s been remotely reliable? “My cousin in Monsey” doesn’t count

WhiteSocks

No need for a reliable source the way he’s been handling this whole epidemic we are expecting him to say a firm no on sleep away camps #commonsense

Juryduty

And, there you have it folks! There’s no source! It’s just “common sense”

Dan\'s the Man

There hasn’t been much common sense from Cuomo during this pandemic. Although he’s done much better than Murphy in NJ!

Dan\'s the Man

He’s been hinting at it for over a month!

Mikes@Micro.com

Why dont we all move to PA?

Susieq

Sleep away camps in pa aren’t opening

Umm

Yes they are
Lubavitch camps are opening in PA

YSP is renting grounds
2 crown heights schools are teaming up and renting grounds
Chayolie hamelech is opening

Joe Fobes

Camp Bonim in Waymart PA is open. Good luck getting in. Long waiting list.

help

is that true?

Beirish

St

RV

Yes they are

Klutz kashe

Why are day camps allowed but not sleep away?
The kids will be in quarantine in camp, what’s wrong with that? Better than a day camp

Zack

Too much logic for the overlords….

junkyardUnz

Day camps are viewed as daycare and daycare is needed to bring the economy back up and running. Sleep away camps are viewed as luxury as they are for older kids…

Tzvi

Sleep away camps are viewed as white privilege, Cuomo can’t have that

C1sarena

Camp can never be on 100% lockdown

Srfsg

Well day camps for sure are not on any lockdown!

Saul

Per Commissioner of Health Dr. Howard Zucker:

“Overnight camps have congregate settings and sleeping arrangements in close quarters that present too many risks,” Zucker said in a statement. “In such a setting, even a single positive case in a camper or staff member could create an untenable quarantine situation and overwhelm camp health personnel that may not be able to handle a serious infectious outbreak of this nature.”

I hope this satisfies your desire to be well informed and to make the right decisions that benefit and protect us all from harm.

/s

Mom of boys

So remind me how the virus spread wild in March?
Also doesn’t everyone know the virus only spreads at night now like a bat.

They are treating us taxpayers like children. They make no sense at all and we are supposed to nod and accept like he’s a god of some sort.
It’s an insult to our intelligence.

King Coumo

Kawasaki Disease or Covid-19?

WhiteSocks

Time to just do what we gotta do. Some people are power hungry and are using the opportunity to show it. No reason for sleep away camps to not open.

Ash

I don’t get the logic. Sleep away seems safer

Joelfreak

Field trips would be very hard as most things are closed (baseball games, theme parks, etc). Staff for camps would not be able to leave the camp, and would have to be kept on campus 24/7. This means they would need to pay staff more, or make an area for staff to be social outside of the kids, as the best times for the staff at most sleepaways are the days they get to be out on the town. Not to mention the liability the camps would have IF a case spreads is tremendous. Just look at states like Texas and AZ, where the number of cases and/or hospitalizations are rising at alarming rates. Lets not forget, of course, many of the Sr members of camp staff are of the age where THEY are high risk.

dandealer

TX just pushed back their back-to-work date by a month (just heard from a co-worker out there) due to the spike.

Russel

What options are there for fun, religious sleep away camps for 12-15 year olds? Are camps in Maryland, Virginia, Ohio (driving distance) available?

Rabbi Beren Fan

Camp Chaverim in PA will be open with a few spots available

Perplexed

Question I’ve been wondering about:

If it’s d’oraisa to follow d’rabanan, doesn’t that make d’rabanan d’oraisa?

Jak

Is this a real q?

dealsrus

Look in Koveiz Shiurim, (I think its called) kuntris mdivrei sofrim.

Shmoogrr

Good question. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning

me

its logic, can you explain it,
why sound ignorant

Case in point

There is an issur drabbanan to ride on an animal on shabbos/yomtov.
For a sukka to be deemed kosher midoraisa, it has to be functional for 7 days.
If you built a sukkah on an animal, (which you will not be able to use on shabbos/YT) the sukka is not functional for 7 days. But that is because of the above issur drabbanan. Midoraisa you would theoretically be allowed to ride on the animal. Does this issur drabbanan now annul the 7 days and make the sukka not kosher midoraisa?

Mr Igga

It’s a machlokes between R Yehuda and R Meir (Sukka 23a)

Encyclopedia Talmudis

Go to the erech of divrei sofrim, chapter 6.

Gary

Excellent question. This question has been discussed by many prominent meforshim and poskim over the years. Yes, a derabbanan is a deoiraisah (gedolah kavod habrios shedoche lo saaseh shebitora is reffering to lo sasur, which is the mitzvah of listening to derabbanans). The most common answer, I believe, is given by the Ramban, who says that the rabbanim made a different set of rules for their takkanos than they did for a deoiraisah. There has been much written on this subject. Ask a talmid chacham or Rav and you’ll get a whole shiur, or pointers where to look to research this. It will be well worth your time. Once again, excellent question.

BLM

What if we rebrand them as justice for George Floyd camps?

Susieq

Ugh

Joelfreak

Racism doesn’t have any part in forums like this. Please keep your racist hatred to yourself.

Berg22

Thank you for saying this

Yitz

It’s not racism. It’s pointing out a clear and obvious double-standard.

Gary

Common sense is color blind. It’s not racist to use one’s head, much as cerebral utilization may have fallen out of vogue.

Please stop it

Racism is a serious charge. I saw nothing racist about the comment. Accusing someone of racism without any proof or just cause is disgusting.

Shmoogrr

What do you mean by rebranding? Aren’t all camps about justice for George Floyd?

Yoely

No logic behind such a decision. It’s all political!! You can send kids home everyday but can’t have all kids stay put for 2 months?! No logic! Tax dollars at work 🙁

Shmoogrr

B”H you’re paying taxes!

CuomoJR

If he cancels I’m sending my kids to camp Cuomo at the governor’s mansion.

Rivka

Yeah! I’ve been hearing the same but Assemblyman Simcha Eichenstein is fighting tooth and nail to get them opened. He just tweeted this recently:
https://twitter.com/SEichenstein/status/1270851382367727618?s=20

Dan\'s the Man

He tried hard but King Cuomo said no.

Shmoogrr

Um, I actually think he is King Cuomo II

Dan\'s the Man

I stand corrected 🙂

D

What happened to the regional council?? I don’t get it?! Connecticut NJ NY were all supposed to decide everything together!!!

Shimmy

This is exactly the reason why we think that NY will ban camps, because NJ and Connecticut already banned them

junkyardUnz

NJ banned sleep away camps (not that I know of any in NJ)?

Dan\'s the Man

Of course they did. Murphy makes less sense than Cuomo!

Dan\'s the Man

That was just BS. They didn’t follow each other at all! You can get a haircut and eat at an (outdoor restaurant) on Long Island today but not in NJ

Gittel

Why not? It’s more safe than daycamps

David

From a friend:

I just heard from someone who was on the call. The State Health Commissioner of NY refused to budge about opening sleepaway camps. Not about Kawasaki or the inflammatory disease—he’s afraid of a second wave and that he’ll be responsible for it.

Dan\'s the Man

a 2nd wave? They’d be safer in camp than at home! lol Also no 2nd wave at least until the fall. When China, South Korea reopened they had small spikes (like Israel is having now) but no 2nd wave. When Georgia / Texas reopened 6 weeks ago the media said the Governors would be killing people and yet those states have a similar curve than NY / NJ.

Shmoogrr

He doesn’t take responsibility for anything anyhow. Did you ever see him say that he is to blame for something? He always put them on someone else. So what is the difference now?

Yoely

The only solution is for everyone to open!
(Maybe holding up signs “BLM” will keep the Authorities away)

Joelfreak

Racism isn’t en vogue anywhere. You don’t need to be racist to make your point.

Yitz

I think you misunderstand, Joel. Yoely is referencing the apparent disparity in enforcing coronavirus-related health directives in some protests for racial justice vis a vis other gatherings. (This violates the first amendment, see eg Pleasant Grove City v. Summum re viewpoint neutrality.)
I don’t think he meant any racism or privilege.

Joelfreak

You mean the protests that were occuring BEFORE the current ones to argue to allow haircuts? Where people complained without masks (as opposed to almost ALL protesters for BLM) for reopening? Those ones where there was little to no police presence at all?!

Yitz

I see that you disagree with Yoely.
It doesn’t make him a racist.

Joelfreak

“(Maybe holding up signs “BLM” will keep the Authorities away)” is VERY clear in intent.

Yitz

It clearly shows some frustration with his civil rights being violated. What is racist about what he said? I define racism as harboring a view on an individual based on his race. Yoely’s post did not even resemble such a thing.
(BTW the post from “Yitz” at 12:39 am was not from me and whoever it is please don’t do that it’s annoying and whats the point?)

Joelfreak

Again, WHAT civil rights are being violated? Protests are CLEARLY allowed by the first amendment. Protests for MANY things have occured since Covid, NOT just BLM. Summer Camps are a commercial venture. You are trying to point to something that looks and quacks like a duck, but call it a cat.

Yitz

I was referring mostly to the ban on shuls. Maybe you could argue that camps are an religious educational institution and falls under free exercise. (I think most parents send to camp for chinuch purposes and not just entertainment. It’s not like Disneyworld. Or a cat. Many (all?) camps are non-profits.) I guess that’s a stretch though legally.

Yitz

I guess they will pasken our argument in federal court https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/64-Complaint.pdf

Yitz2

Hey Yitz, I’m sorry. That’s actually my name and I didn’t pay attention to yours to have the forsite of altering it

Yitz

Wow lol that’s so funny
No worries

Yitz

Hey what happened mod??

Yitz

You’re actually proving the point. The media went ape over that, but didn’t mention COVID concerns for BLM whatsoever.

Tzvi

Wow, to think someone would justify the protests even though it’s putting so many at risk of starting another wave. Sometimes people can be so blind to the truth.

Joelfreak

You are saying the protests shouldn’t have happened because of the virus?! This is silly. People wore masks, but as I stated before, these were NOT the first protests since the virus, AND we are talking about a people oppressed here. If ANYONE should understand people oppressed, its Jews. Need I remind you of the story of Passover?!

ME

If masks are the only thing required and not social distancing then groups larger than 10 or 50 or 250 or 500 (depending on which state and when) should be okay with masks. So camps and synagogues and shopping should be alright and legal. We have freedom of movement allowed.

What’s the difference?

Joelfreak

Mitigation of risk.

Please stop it

Please stop throwing around the charge of racism. Accusing someone of being a racist in such cases undermines your cause. It’s not nice.

YM

The logic is that he wouldn’t send his kids so he’s not letting us send ours.

I wonder what other parenting tips he’s going to force us to follow

Sam

Easy for him to say, his kids are in their 20s!

Chaim

The Governor has very little to gain politically by allowing the camps to open as many camps have already cancelled and the Frum camps that would like to open can go jump in the lake.

Dan\'s the Man

He also has nothing to lose politically by opening camps. He’s just power hungry and things he knows better than parents.

Juryduty

Dan, let’s stick to real news. It’s bringing down the quality of material on the site. Even if this rumor proves to be true, this is nothing more than an unverified rumor at this point.

yesitsme

its a verified rumor

Backwards

Sleepaway camps are actually far safer than day camps. Kids go away for the summer, contract COVID, come home immune, and effectively act as shields for their parents and others more susceptible. That’s how herd immunity is best achieved with a lower death rate. They shouldn’t have closed all the colleges either. Cuomo made a terrible decision on nursing homes. Why would anyone trust him on the camp decision?

Shmoogrr

What you’re saying is logic, and Cuomo doesn’t understand logic. He understands $$$$

Ayr

That’s the problem he has noproblem about money or household or what you would like to do we can do and he has so much publicity so why should he work for us

seriously?

you assume all kids are safe from covid. some kids could have undiagnosed conditions that could prove fatal. and that’s why your not the one making decisions!

Ayr

You’re not right because how many kids did die except for the Kawasaki disease that only a few died because not taking care of them well

Abe

No kid will stay home for 2 month’s and at home they would put older people at risk too, unlike camps.

Ayr

And now he said that we need to wait for the health department to verify that it’s no problem for visiting in nursing homes

Dan\'s the Man

Which camps announced plan to move? How were they able to pull it off so last minute? Finding a place and planning all the logistics?

Joe

NY had become very similar to Venezuela, with a socialist dictator in charge of the state.

Shmoogrr

One things for sure, we’re all waiting online for groceries

Samdaman

+1000

Emes

Online or on line(in line)? If the latter, clearly you haven’t been food shopping in a while or you are shopping at the wrong places. I haven’t waited to get into a supermarket in many weeks already.

Costco on the other hand I have waited, although they seem to let in 100 people every 7 minutes, so it wasn’t really an issue and checking out was that much faster.

As for summer camps, probably the full time residents of Sullivan & Ulster lobbying against it. והמבין יבין
And yes I realize it’s not only “our” camps that would be impacted.

As for BLM, when I was in the scouts BLM was Boys’ Life Magazine.

Liz

I think camps should permanently move to Pennsylvania. More spacious and less red tape than NY. Bungalow colonies too. Forget NY! And yes, I’m from Brooklyn

Susieq

Pa camps are not opening. Moshsva morasha nesher. All closed

Anon

Hence, the space for ny camps to move in for this summer

Yitz

Bonim is opening. Just the modern camps aren’t. No shaychus (connection)

Sara

Some camps are. It depends on the steam in Pennsylvania

...

Any idea when this will officially be announced? It’s almost at the end of this week.

Josh

I’d be curious to hear from a camp director here but it seems that the logistics in opening are very challenging. The camps would have to have dedicated bunks for potential covid cases – how many camps have that extra space? And if they reduced enrollment, how would that work? Parents of rejected kids would go ballistic. The costs of testing would be astronomical – cost of each test would be minimum $70 – multiply that by number of staff/campers, you’re talking 5 figures for just one round of testing. And even if parents shared that cost it would still be an other economic cost. Plus, how many parents would indemnify the camp and health officials if they get sick? The insurance for potential coverage is probably another huge cost. Personally I want my kids to go and told their camps but I can understand the concern.

Dan\'s the Man

So let the camps decide if they can open. Let parents decide if they want to send. It shouldn’t be up to the King, I mean governor.

Shmoogrr

Yada yada yada, and then they make $122.72 for the food program…

Keith

I am a camp director of a day camp. My main boss cancelled all of our town camps (Westchester, NY). While different from sleep away, there is a lot of overhead costs for towns and camps to provide masks, sanitizers and anything else that needs to happen. My town does not make much money off the camp, so they cancelled 3 weeks ago. Too many moving parts and not worth the risk for them. I am wondering about unemployment as I am a teacher from Sept-June. I will find out when I apply at the end of the month

Lessor

Also- If any kid develops cold lik symptoms- he AND ALL HE CAME INTO CONTACT WITH would need to be sent home. Obviously NUMEROUS kids come down with cold symptoms in sny given summer..

Trying my best

They will only allow sleep away camps that allow campers to burn down the bunkhouses

Joelfreak

Again, racism has no place here. You can make your point without bringing out the hatred.

pointer

All I see is a man hating on looters. you’re the one bringing up race.

Joelfreak

Real mature.

Yitz

Agreed

Simcha Cohen

How is it “racist”? Stop virtue-signaling, Joel.

You know full well they were stopping minyans and weddings at the same time they were allowing thousands into the streets for “George Floyd!” without masks or any distancing at all, with no police involvement.

It’s a ridiculous injustice. Grow up and don’t be a soy boy.

Umm

Hes a woke liberal

There’s no racism, look at the statistics

If he really cared about blacks he’d be protesting in chicago

Joelfreak

Yep, no racism at all in America. Keep wearing your kippah over your eyes.

Joelfreak

Do you NOT understand the difference between a peaceful protest (protected by first amendment rights) and the banning of group gatherings that are NOT required? ALL religions were banned. NOT just Jewish or Muslim or Catholic ones. Protests occurred nationwide for reopening that were not banned BEFORE the BLM protests. Where were you when those happened?! Do you remember how New Rochelle was a hotspot BECAUSE of religious gatherings?!

ME

What is the difference between peaceful protests and peaceful gatherings? They are both permitted and supported under the constitution. What changed according to the statement of both the governors of NY and NJ is whether THEY, the governors, deemed them necessary.

So to sum up, people are very angry at the clear and stated permission to one type of gathering over another determined not through law but by fiat.

That is real bigotry and maybe even racism.

Joelfreak

Whats the difference between a summer camp and a baseball game? Whats the difference between a music festival and a wedding?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The freedom to protest is DIRECTLY in there. Courts have ruled time and time again that preventing religious SERVICES while banning all OTHER public gatherings is perfectly legal.

Bloopitybloppity

Who mentioned anything about legal or illegal? The argument was that it shouldn’t be up to one person to decide that protesting (and I mean protesting anything, I make this disclaimer against my better judgement because I know you’ll pull the racist card if I dont, which by the way I’m sure is very helpful to the cause) is worth the risk of spreading covid but davening (or any other activity for that matter is not) and I know you and your Ilk like to bring up the fact that most (peaceful) protesters are wearing masks while conveniently ignoring the fact that they are not social distancing in the slightest. The point is if they were doing what they were doing for any other reason besides for what they are doing it for it would be shut down and blasted by the cuomo, deblasio, the media and probably you. And in regards to the other protests firstly they weren’t in New York secondly they were not in large crowds and thirdly they were blasted by the media and everyone else.

U need to b smart

It’s really pretty pashut – it’s all about liability. If I’d be an owner of an overnight camp in the Catskills, I would have already made the decision 2 months ago: No chance I’m opening. If just one camper gets sick or dies from COVID, chas v’shalom, you will (1) have to close camp immediately and send all campers home (2) Be the subject of international news negative reporting, reaching all networks, websites, and every social media platform for weeks (3) be subjected to the most intense and intrusive investigation from several government agencies, who will scrutinize every aspect of your camp: health, food, finance, staff, etc. (4) I would feel horribly guilty and pained for the rest of my life, even though it wasn’t directly my fault.

Dan\'s the Man

so let the camps decide not the governor.

U need to b smart

As you can see from many posts here, quite a lot of people would choose to open camps. Several camp owners might be tempted to think about the size of their wallets before they think about the safety and well-being of our children. So although I’m all for small government and I hate when government intrudes into my life, here is one time I would understand the necessary intrusion.

There is no way Cuomo will allow camps to legally open. NY has suffered the worst circumstances of this period in the entire world: most COVID cases, most COVID deaths, worst rioting, worst looting. He does not want another black eye for his state with a potential outbreak in overnight camps.

Dan\'s the Man

Well part of the reason NY had it the worse was because Cuomo’s administration failed our elderly by sending covid positive patients into nursing homes. The fact that we had it bad 2 months ago actually means we are less at risk for a bad 2nd wave. Yes it was bad in NY it’s not longer worse in NY than half the other states.

Shmoogrr

You may be right, and what about all the yeshives and shuls that are open now behind the scenes?

Lawyer

It’s legal in a lot of NY now

Emes

+1. It has been completely legal in NY for 3 full weeks already.

Simcha Cohen

So no campers have ever gotten sick, fallen, or drowned at a summer camp?

Joelfreak

Drowning isn’t contagious last I checked.

Zak

Any idea if Romimu is one of the camps with a backup plan?

Texas Totty

I heard it’s a very elaborate color war breakout.

Eli

+1

Shamus

Bhahaha

chaz

actually a really relevant topic for most of us
thank you for posting

Facts

Here’s the facts:

But first, if you don’t live in NY or NJ, you need to realize that most families either had Covid and now have antibodies, or probably won’t get it. Even if they would, for a camper it is usually very mild. Many if us who have antibodies never new we had Covid in the first place. Most people here were exposed.

If camps would open, many already decided they will not accept campers from out of state due to the above reasons. The most cautious infectious disease doctors wrote up a list of safety precautions which each camp agreed to stick to, and those rules were submitted to the Governor.

At first he said he was not really nervous about Covid. He was concerned about Kawasaki. Then when the camp association along with the top doctors proved to him how ridiculous that was, he changed course. They explained that out of the 41,000 campers, maybe one or to might get it. That will happen whether they are in camp or not. The disease is not contagious, and usually not dangerous. The Governor then said he is worried about a second wave of Covid.

He is power and control hungry. What he is really nervous about is that Covid might be over here and he goes back to be a nothing again.

Yesterday there was a meeting with the Governors medical guy, camp heads and major infectious disease doctors. It was a disaster and nobody was able to convince this guy. All doctors agreed it is safe to open, and unsafe to stay closed. Families in NY, some of who live in cramped houses are literally going nuts. Mental heath here is a real concern. Parents also need to be able to get back to work. They can’t be busy entertaining their children.

Some camps are moving, or looking to move out of state. Some programs will open for 18 and over which is permitted legally because its not called a camp.

Other camps are planning to open “day camps”. That is the best solution if most if their clientele have summer homes. All campers will sleep at home or bungalows. They will come to camp in the morning, and go home late at night. This way camp will be pretty regular, at least as regular as possible.

All of this has nothing to do with health. It’s all the democrat liberal control grabbers power pull.

And btw, they will still not say if they are allowing school to open this fall!

Joelfreak

WHAT?
“But first, if you don’t live in NY or NJ, you need to realize that most families either had Covid and now have antibodies, or probably won’t get it. Even if they would, for a camper it is usually very mild. Many if us who have antibodies never new we had Covid in the first place. Most people here were exposed.”
Do you understand the way numbers work? We are NOWHERE NEAR herd immunity. Look at the states where the numbers are at all time highs since reopening (14 of them!). Where do you get off making such a silly statement?!

Shmoogrr

In Boro Park, Williamsburg, Monsey, KJ, and a few other places the high majority has antibodies. As you may know, all shuls, mikvahs, and many boys & girl schools and yeshivahs are completely open as before (והמבין יבין) for more than the past 3 weeks and there has yet to be more than a handful of new cases from these communities. Otherwise everything will close back again.

Facts

NOWEHRE DID I MENTION HERD IMMUNITY!

Most people in NY and NJ frum communities were exposed. Most have antibodies. Some people’s blood type is such that they are not susceptible to the virus. There are very few left who are not in the above categories.

Joelfreak

So you are saying that only Jewish summer camps should be able to open because everyone got it already?! That sounds…wrong on SO many levels.

Keith

What blood type is not susceptible?

Chana Haymov

You are WRONG. I am a pediatrician in Monsey. MANY kids have gotten antibody tested because either they had Covid or they were exposed to their parents who did. Surprisingly, MOST of their results are antibody negative, so they can still contract it. I also wanted my son to go to sleepaway and his summer has been cancelled. But I have seen Kawasaki’s disease, ( which is similar to this Pediatric MultiInflammatory disease that has been affecting kids post Covid) 5 times in 26 years. I never want to see another one. Kids in day camp get checked by their parents every day. Kids in sleepaway, and I can attest from my son, sleep in unairconditioned bunk houses with minimal supervision. I would NOT want to be the 17 year old camp councellor who first lays eyes on one of those kids whose eyes look a little red ( maybe they would think its from chlorine from a pool?), who skin looks a little red ( probably they just got sunburned) and who feels a little warm( well, there is no air conditioning so of course they feel warm). If a parent misses Kawasaki, it’s the parent’s fault. If a sleepaway camp misses Kawasaki, it’s a lawsuit. I am not happy with the decision as a mother. But as a pediatrician, I have to agree with Cuomo, sorry. Day camp, NOT sleepaway this summer.

Keith

Very true. I don’t understand how someone can say “most people have immunity”. I live in Westchester County NY, first place to impose lockdown in the whole country. Not everyone has immunity. Most people I know haven’t had it and I dont know many people who have antibodies (I do not). Please check your facts before you say outlandish things. Maybe we’ve had it worse than other places, but by no means do “most” of NY NJ have been exposed…that’s just purely untrue and could lead people to act improperly

Yitz

Source?

Ash

I know of a popular boys camp that is becoming a day camp. Don’t know the logistics

pointer

Since when do you post rumors?

Jacob

dan i know you have an understanding of things and people, do you think that cuomo is genuine about his concern for this disease or did this crisis turn him into a megalomaniac hungary for control?

chaz

was wondering why they need to know my sons t shirt size, medical records, and whom he would like to be with for a simple one month demonstration!

E

If you are registered as a Republican in NY, you can try to file for refugee status… to leave your war-torn city

united

Hearing that in NJ, the reason that Murphy refuses to open schools is because of pressure from the teacher’s union. They have many votes, and he has to listen to them. (following Dan’s lead of not disclosing source, but the guy was on the call with Murphy).

Wondering if there are some powerful unions in NY that are swaying this decision.

Dan\'s the Man

Schools done with for now. Let’s just hope Murphy doesn’t get power hungry and cancel school for Sep. Europe got the carona 3-4 weeks before we did in NY and 22 schools have started opening schools there. Denmark was been open for 6 weeks for lower school. Sweden (I’m not debating their strategy of not shutting down) never close lower school and kids have not been getting sick or dying. This disease very minorly affects kids. Even with the very limited of cases of deaths (like the 3 in NY State that died from the Kawasaki disease) more kids die for lots of other contagious diseases every year that doesn’t prompt school or camp to be closed.

DAN DAN !!!

Please remove anything about mekomos hakedoshim and chadorim to mention anything like that online is simply braindead

Shmoogrr

Link the same way cuomo did

DanR

Guess he is gunning for the fredo title

So this moron sends covid patients to nursing homes a decision that caused thousands of people their lives and a now he is messing with our children’s mental health. What a disgrace this guy is. Will go down as the worst governor in NY history along with the Putz mayor we have here.

What a disgrace

B

As an insider a little on this topic I can tell you that its not really a rumor its NOT happening for first half for sure, unless a miracle happens

Juryduty

Care to share what your source is? Do you work for the government, are you an exec of a camp? You’re the first person here who claims to be an insider

YM

Actually I’ve been an insider for the last 86 days ever since this pandemic started.. The whole point of this there’s is about trying to become an outsider..

WE pay his salary! Maybe we should stop.

So if sleepaway camps are banned, then it’s safe to assume that Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs wont be allowed to open one month later, in September?
The only aitza is to get together with some black groups/camps and start another demonstration/civil disobedience, screaming RACISM! Cuomo, upon being called a racist, will fold like a cheap camera and relent.

Joelfreak

Again, wildly racist. For a community with our history, we should NOT be showing such hatred towards others.

seriously?

you should ask the black community to stop attacking jews in the street first!

Joelfreak

Please provide examples where black people are in a pattern attacking jewish people only. I’ll wait.

NMN

There were many recent attacks in Brooklyn that specifically targeted Jews. Most, if not all, were committed by African Americans.
If you aren’t aware of these attacks, you should really refrain from commenting further.

Mendy

There is quite more evidence of that in Brooklyn (the place I’m most familiar with) then the police specifically targeting black people. Many people aren’t aware of this since the mainstream media won’t make such a big deal about the black on Jewish violence – it doesn’t fit their narrative of racist white America targeting black people. On January 29 last year there were 2 hate crimes, the fake one was made into a whole scandal because it fit the narrative, the one caught on camera was basically ignored – it was part of a string of black on Jewish violence. When a white person shoots up a synagogue it gets prime coverage and remains in the news cycle for a while as it fits the white racist narrative well.

Liam K. Nuj

My source (someone who’s been on a few conference calls with Cuomo and other state officials) intimated to me that the push to keep sleep away camps closed is mostly due to pressure from 4 Upstate counties: Sullivan, Orange, Ulster and either Dutchess or Delaware.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! Make those counties forgo the property taxes on any property forced to be closed and we’ll see how fast they’ll be clamoring for the camps to open!

yesitsme

of course its based on Data and Science

Liam K. Nuj

Yeah, the “data and science” of the locals hoping for a Jew-free summer.
A short dumpy local gave me attitude in ShopRite at 2am early in a summer season many years ago (“Oh, they’re back”).
I told her, “Lady, the money I spend HERE helps YOU live in a bigger trailer”

Be nice

what a Kiddush Hashem, now she will love jews

Liam K. Nuj

And if I kept silent, she would begin to love Jews? Probably less so, because then she would have interacted with another spineless Jew.
I spoke the truth to her. She stood there with her mouth agape.
Definitely worth the price of admission.

Mendy

In hindsight, I would leave out the part about of trailer. Make your point well without the sting.

Liam K. Nuj

Sure. Next time.
And maybe I’ll offer to pay for her groceries and bring them home for her.
That way I can see for myself the trailer that I (and all the other summer visitors) helped her afford.

F B

I hope the camps don’t pay any 2020 local or state taxes!

Mendy

Has anyone considered that despite reassurances that camps will follow rules that the governor looks at the schools already open in the chaidish communities, he sees the large festive rebbe weddings and does not trust us at all to open camps and follow the rules?

VL

If he really knows what’s going on, he also knows that there was no surge in Covid cases since Pesach, despite as you say weddings etc. (And for that matter also after the massive protests lately) which shreds his “facts and science”.

J.T

This pandemic is real!! It’s best to be safe then sorry

Beirish

So why is every other State in the Nation opening their sleepaway camps? Is it only the sanctimonious NYS that is so so so concerned? We are dealing with Frum people in this discussion. Can you name ONE Yid that caught the Coronavirus and died in the last 3 weeks?
I thought so.
You make sure that YOU stay locked in your home until 2030 and in this way, you’ll be nice and safe and live forever.

Qsman

I personally would not want to plunk down $3k so my kid can sit around in a camp a zillion miles away, unable to play sports or other activities because of the social distancing required- even if they did open. Then again l am from OOT where we have lawns & backyards..

I have also been told by other parents that several NY yeshivas are up and around the mountains, I am not sure how they can do that legally unless they somehow got occupancy permits for the summer (Camp Simcha has a permanent yearly permit, but even they are figuring out what to do).

Facts

It’s mostly Beis Medrash age, not high school. They have special permits for over 18. It’s not a camp permit.

Also, some local officials are being loose in what they allow with regards to religious institutions. The laws are being written very vague and this gives local officials some extra room to turn there eye.

NYer

The yeshivas that went upstate are for ages 18 and older. They are technically not considered camps.

rob

This is silly season – To the extent that camps in general are dangerous, sleepaway camps are far safer than day camps

Let’s say that Cuomo prevents 300 kids from going to camp XYZ…. what does he think will happen? Does he think those kids will stay in their house for 2 months?

This isn’t a binary choice between going to sleepaway camp and locking themselves in a house – those kids are going out and socializing anyways. Even the strictest parents aren’t locking their kids in the house for 2 months while school is out. Now they’ll just do it while exposing themselves to higher risk people as well, whereas in a sleepaway camp, they would be in a bubble where 98% of the people on premises are under 25.

Cuomo can call this whatever he wants, but he shouldn’t pretend this has any basis in science

Ayr

Basis of common sense

NoExcuses

Wow the sense of entitlement here is ugly. The racism and the ignorance don’t looks good on you peeps either.

If you want to organize a mass protest over camp closing – that is your democratic right. It appears some are conflating the right to protest – with the content of the protest (and also bad outcomes).

We are strong and smart. Circumstances suck. But each individual family can figure out a health way to stay local and thrive.

For your own good – a lot less: blaming, comparing to others; and a lot more personal responsibility will for a long way here.

Joelfreak

This thread is NOT a good look for Jews everywhere. Thankfully, I know its not true of ALL Jews, but the racism, hatred, and just pure BS facts that are in this thread is NOT something I hope others see.

Yitz2

You’re pointing out of Jews is itself racist. I think you have some re-educating to do.

LK

No it is not. Arguing that an attitude or statement is ignorant and racist is not itself ignorant and racist. I’m shocked by the comments in this blog post.

Shamus

Nothing ignorant about the frustration here. The logic behind closing the camps is sorely lacking. It’s mainly a political move based on liability issues.

mo

What’s the difference between Covid-19 and a cow?
Cuomo can’t milk a cow!

Joelfreak

Yep. 7 million people infected on the planet, and the NY State Governor is milking it. Thats it. It was all a plan.

mo

I think Yeshivas should organize an end of school-year trip (protest) to Albany. 10,000 frum kids in front of governor’s mansion would be a blast.

YGX

That is a fantastic idea. And if they do some rioting along the way, they won’t even need to social distance!!

Joelfreak

Again, REALLY racist statement.

YGX

Really? What race did I mention? YOU’RE the racist since you immediately come to the conclusion I’m referring to any race in particular!!

Joelfreak

Yep. Keep telling yourself that. We ALL knew what you meant.

Yitz2

Really? What? Please explain EXACTLY what we all KNEW he meant

me

@Joelfreak ok. we got your point. you’re a liberal wacko. It’s fine there are millions out there. Move on. Let Dan censor his site as he sees fit, and you go comment on everyone else’s feelings somewhere else

Joelfreak

Dan has every right to do with this site as he wishes. The thing that I think is a shame is the poor impression people will get of this community when they read many of the remarks in this thread.

ME

Sarcasm isn’t racism. Stop conflating.

Joelfreak

THAT is a fully legal idea. You want to protest? Go ahead.

Justin

Press conference just ended. No updates on Camp today.

moshe

I think we should apply for a BLM camp

Joelfreak

Why not spend some of the summer learning about race in America? Instead of degrading others causes, why not see if you can understand why they feel that way? Why is belittling your answer?

moshe

I actually joined a protest and feel for their cause but I feel for my cause too. If we could all protest together and it did not pose any health risk because it comes from a place of hurt and desperation, maybe then the desperation of my Family in lockdown is ample reason too. Why whenever anyone says something about BLM do you perceive it as “belittling”?

Joelfreak

In optimal situation, we don’t need protests. They are protesting because police are killing black people at an alarming rate. Systemic racism is real, and you can see that in the numbers. Your family in lockdown IS worthy of SOME sympathy as well, I am not trying to belittle it. But you can go out now (on LI and Westchester) and soon in NYC. We stopped a pandemic from killing TONS. Look at India, look at Brazil. This is NOT something to be joked with. We ALL have cabin fever…but I would rather you be yelling at me alive from your cabin then burying you.

Truth

Your statement is factually incorrect please just google how many blacks killed by police and how many whites killed by police.
The BLM platform is anti Semitic as well once again all you need to do is google it.

Look at the facts

” Police are killing black people at an alarming rate” Do you even know the ratio of blacks killed by cops and blacks killed by blacks??? I suppose not.

Miriam

You are comparing the suffering of your family lockdown to cold murder by a police officer?

moshe

No, I am not. And while I am not comparing it, it still is a big issue, emotional health is crucial too. I am comparing, though, the lack of a spike because of protests to the lack of spikes that will probably be caused by camps.

moshe

Why whenever anyone says something about BLM do you perceive it as “belittling”? maybe you should go out and understand their cause and the way they are feeling. You might consider it a legitimate movement afterward. I was there and was very moved by the sincerity that most of them displayed

dave

Perhaps a silver lining to all this saving this summer on sleepover camp expenses which like weddings are also getting exorbitant! I understand this may be different as camps can be a positive outlet and anyway keeping them home will also cost; BUT point is this is also an expense that can cripple families because of lack of better options.

Non accountant

Incorrect comparison. A wedding is for 4 hours. A camp is for 8 weeks! Do the math.

dave

incorrect assumption. As I posted initially they are different; however multiple children in sleep away camps is usually more than day camp and school tuition per month/week so while true that they are much cheaper by the hour than weddings; it is still a major expense for some who are still struggling to finish paying off tuition for the year.

Ayr

Even if you do the math it’s also expensive not so expensive as a wedding. Expensive to and if you have a lot of kids it’s very a big price

gemarakop

maybe he”ll let camps open in nursing homes

Boruch

It’s confirmed by all Chasiddic Camps.
They stopped accepting applications

REAL SOURCE

So my inside source tells me that the camp directors decided that if they can not open the sleepaway camps then they are renting out each bunk to another family and will build walls to make it compatible for family’s and it will be like a bungalow colony and there will be separated times for men women by the pool and all the courts will have separate times for men women etc so we can all still have fun!!
STAY TUNED FOR DETAILS!!!!

Nechemia

Dan are your “good sources” Governor Cuomo”?

Facts

5 Towns Central5 Towns Central

News
Updates From Camps Kaylie and Romimu
By 5TC Team -June 11, 20200

Advertisement

—-
From Camp Romimu:

June 11, ’20

Dear Romimu Family,

Thank you for your continued support and trust. The letters and calls of encouragement that we have gotten over the last few weeks give us the chizuk to keep fighting for camps to open.

There have been many texts and messages that have been circulating. Many of them are based on bits of information that are based on a snapshot in time and are not accurate at all.

I have been working to get camps open and giving 100% of my energy to the effort. There are askonim from all walks of Yiddishkeit that are working together with Agudas Israel in the push for Albany to give overnight camps the green light. I am working together with Agudah leadership who have been lobbying Albany incessantly on our behalf. The fight is NOT over, we have not given up. There is a chance that we MAY receive a green light. Is it 20%, 50% or 90%? We simply do not know. We are hoping for an announcement early next week. Keep in mind that we have been expecting an answer for approximately one month and it has been pushed off time and again.

What if we get a green light? Terrific, camp is ready! We will, IYH, have our most amazing summer ever. Everyone’s dreams for the summer will have been realized.

What if we get a no or we don’t get an answer by early next week? As a backup, we would open an extended day camp program for all ages. It would be 6 days a week and would extend into the evening. If we don’t get an answer, we will send out information about our day camp program. Unfortunately, this would leave out the many hundreds of boys who are not upstate during the summer. I know this would be devastating for all those boys and would pain me very much personally. We will, therefore, continue to battle to open overnight camps.

Are we looking into a campus in Pennsylvania or another state? That is still a possibility, but it is highly unlikely. We looked at camp sites and did not feel that they would be a good fit for Camp Romimu. We are still exploring other campsites, but again this is not likely.

Wishing you and your mishpacha much hatzlacha. B’ezer Hashem, we hope to rejoin with our Romimu family very soon!

Rabbi Shlomo Pfeiffer

Love @joelfreak

I love this Joel freak guy, it’s so boring when blogs are one sided. I just wish I could debate you on live television. It’s just that I’m “choished” it’s really Dan, you know making sure theirs lots of traffic on the site….. Either way it’s a great site, But Joel if you’re a real person I would love to debate you. Contact Dan for my contact info. Good luck (I hope this comment wasn’t racist in any way Chas vshalom)

Joelfreak

If I am a real person?! *looks* 2 feet, 2 hands…a head. I THINK that makes me real?!

Mendy

Yup, that makes you real 🙂 so, are up for Dan sharing your email with “Love @joelfreak”?

Love @joelfreak

OK I stand to be corrected .happy to hear that their were some who cared! I don’t usually have web access so I didn’t follow.I Made my assessment Based on people in my circle (of Flatbush FYI). Which although their were some acceptions,but the overall sentiment was one of lethargy.
But I think the first point is still quite true! Let’s be mispalel for vsechezena eineinu. Amen.

Chaim

Only hashem really knows….

Hvaces42

What a chutzpah. Agudah who is supposed to advocate for the whole klal goes and gets their own camp in NH.

YY

I applaud them, I think all NY state camps should move to other states and show that NY governor has caused a loss of income. maybe we should do more than just move camps to another state, but businesses, homes, etc. I think this sends him a strong message that he cannot just control everyone, we can make our own choices without making demonstrations and riots

Guy in BK

What does this have to do with anything? they were advocating for the klal but as soon as they realized all hope was lost they moved on. In fact, many camps did so – it wasn’t a secret.

Banana

Completely asinine.

This should be his logic:
If day camps are allowed, then children will no longer be quarantined and can spread virus.

If sleep away camps are allowed, children will be quarantined, thus flattening the curve.

Straight up: makes zero sense.
Who voted for this moron?

Helen

The people who are NOT sending kids to camp and could care less!

Liz

Cuomo is the epitome of a coward. Waits until the weekend to make the announcement and gets someone else to do his dirty work. Worst governor ever

I

Ok, I now the decision is in…

Where is a central location where I can find an ad hoc vacation minyan off the beaten path?

Yisrael

That’s it, we dont belong here anymore. How many signs does it take to get us to move? Israel, here I come!

Shamus

Agree but even people who get the hint, don’t make the move

Liam K. Nuj

One of the most important aspects of being a leader is the ability to foresee the unintended consequences. And here is where Cuomo fails miserably.
Now many of the camps will open as “day camps”, which means that THOUSANDS of these very same kids that would have been, in effect, quarantined, will be traveling to and from camp. Every. Single. Day. Some people, myself included, who were planning on staying in the city are now looking to be upstate for the summer, as that is the only way their children can be part of these new “day camps”. So THOUSANDS more people will now be traipsing around upstate.
What. A. Failure.

Ike

If cuomo has a problem with COVID-19 Having sleep away camp can reduce the infection, rather then having all the kids all day out on the street. This guy is so dumb

Jeff

Not a rumor anymore

Keith

I may be in minority here but I dont speak any form of Hebrew or practice the religion so some of these comments I cannot understand.

correct me if I\'m wrong

Practice makes perfect 😉

On a (bit more) serious note, most of the Hebrew expressions are inside jokes which would only be appreciated by those in the know.

Emes

True story. We were once in a hotel in the Golan. (In Neve Ativ) The hotel had brought in entertainment – a magician. Anyway seeing we were the only native English speaking family in the audience and we were sitting all the way in the back, he tried to include us.

He asked the audience…(in Hebrew of course) How do you count to three in English? One native Hebrew speaking kid raises his hand and says in his Israeli accent “eh, won, too, tree.” The magician asks the kid to repeat, and again the kid says “won, too, tree.”

The magician repeats after the kid to begin his next trick….
אחת
שתים
עץ.

Me, my wife, and kids were the only ones in the audience laughing. Every one else turned around to stare at us.

I’m pretty sure they still don’t get it.

Point was, some jokes just don’t translate…

Keith

Also, asmaybe the only camp director in here (day camp) I can completely see both sides. I’ll tell you if I was a director of a sleep away camp I’m not sure I’d open. I get the whole quarantine compared to day camps but what about staff who leaves? Now they cant? Camps have to pay more for them. Will staff be as easy to find then? Are they anyway considering the times now? And what if a kid comes down with the virus? What if by that time he or she has spread it? Do summer camps have the means to quarantine kids, especially if multiple? Would parents feel comfortable knowing their kid has it and leaving them there? Would parents of other campers who may be ok want their children to stay? Would I as a director want on my watch God forbid someone at my camp staff or not got it and passed away? Potential law suits. Shut downs. Things could get ugly. I dont want that on my conscience. So many moving parts. I get both arguments but man I dont think I’d open.

correct me if I\'m wrong

Umm, Cuomo didn’t seem too concerned about having the nursing home fiasco on his conscience.

All we are asking for is the “RIGHT” to open camps.
– We are not forcing anyone to open their camp
– We are not forcing anyone to come to camp
– We can demand COVID-19 liability waivers if necessary
– It helps empty out the city so we can maintain social distancing here
– It helps us keep WHATEVER SANITY WE STILL HAVE LEFT!!!!

P.S. Sunshine and/or Vitamin D help reduce Covid-19 spread/effects

P.P.S. Gut Shabbos everyone!!!

Keith

I respect that. Makes sense. I think we are experiencing such troubling times that we really as a nation are confused what to do. Cant please everyone. If you open you’ll see some people saying hell no and could make things worse even if their kid doesnt go. Tough all around

Shamus

VERY WELL STATED

YM

Depends on the type of camp. We are open in PA and nobody including staff will be leaving camp for the full eight weeks. (Unless things open up towards the end of the summer). The only exception will be for when the Camp doctor needs to send to the hospital. All entertainment will be brought to the grounds. Plus testing everyone before they arrive (obviously it’s not fool proof, but at least it’s something).

Avi2

@Dan most government agencies will do what are calling Friday press release dumps of controversial issues so that they will get lost in the weekend news and blow over by Monday.

mike

it doesn’t really make that much sense. how a sleepaway camp in New York cannot open but a sleep way camp in Pennsylvania 4 miles away can open

Liam K. Nuj

I can give you many reasons:
1) Different states, different rules.
2) Sorry. That’s it. Just 1 reason.

Richard Rubin

Hi.

I Am a loyal New York City Resident, And Greatly Appreciate all the preventions which the governor has done to keep us safe, which is a clear sign of the governors caring of us all, and acting in our best interest.

I recently saw the governors verdict, Regarding the SUMMER Sleepaway camps, which surprised me, For as we live with facts, On May 21 2020, channel 4 news quoted the following,

“Up to 147 NYC Kids Sickened by Severe New COVID Syndrome; 15 Cases Confirmed in NJ “

Which is a clear statement that this illness is a NEW TYPE OF ILLNESS, Not connected to The Covid-19 Illness.

On these bases, to prohibit Summer Sleep Away Camps of opening, Is A Unfortunate sign of a double standard , Were the governor has approved the protests against the Brutal Killing of George Floyd, Knowing The facts that there was no social distancing or face coverings, and at the same time, not allowing children to attend sleepaway camps after being locked down for months, which is not a luxary,rather a necessity to their humanity, Due to a illness which has no link to the covid -19 Virus, as shown in the above article.

There is a saying which would be beneficial in this matter which is,
“It may be late, but it’s not too late “,

My Point is that although a verdict has been mentioned and it is mid-June, it is not TO LATE, To Reanalyze This point and decides to do what is the opinion of many Fellow New Yorkers.

I thank you.

New York City Resident.

BJ

What is a “loyal New York City Resident”?

Shamus

Anyone can advise regarding bungalow colonies/rentals? Are there any restrictions for the summer in the Catskills?

Marc

Ruling was expected. No one is surprised by this. Now, if camps open, they will be shut, fined and they will lose permit from ever opening again.

Macher

Fyi, many camps in upstate are opened , they are being called “colleges”

DT

They probably could have gone the route of separating the camp grounds into 2 separate parts. A “Day Camp” for activities, sports, meals etc… and a separate “Youth Hostel” lodging area for sleeping arrangements.

FBR

The way you worded your announcement of this denial and the fact that you’re calling it a “longshot” attempt makes it sound like you’re actually excited that the judge denied the TRO. Not impressed with your vindication and disregard to the disappointment this has caused to many.

You could have at least written that the judge has “unfortunately denied…”. That one word would have completely taken off the edge of excitement now emanating from your announcement. And yes, it is unfortunate that camps cannot open in NY.

Mendel

Please. An oheiv Yisroel like Dan happy to be vindicated?! Dan would surely have LOVED to be wrong on this one.

OD

arent most moving to PA anyway this year?

Joe

I hope no one will pay property tax this year in upstate, as gesture of appreciation for the antisemites and upstate.

eli

this hasn’t stopped many camps from opening up under the guise of retreats, colleges, day camps (w/ sleep-overs) etc…. or moving operations to NH, PA…..

Hershel

I may be wrong, but I feel that we are missing the boat. Hashem is trying to get us to rethink our lifestyle and we are just not getting it.
Do we REALLY need to go to sleep over camp? Do parents have to go into debt to do that? Do we NEED to go into debt to uproot ourselves every summer to vacation in the catskills?
Yes, I know many people say it is a absolute must for city kids to air out. Well, I grew up in LA. That is also a City. The vast majority of kids did not go away to camp.
They all grew up just fine. What about all the city kids who stay home and go to daycamp? Do you really think they grow up any different? Have a harder year in school?

Its the same story with Weddings. Hashem is trying to teach us something, and yet now that the restrictions are over, it is almost as if nothing changed in the simcha scene.
Do you know that 70-80% of people making weddings in the tristate have to collect for it ( In one way or another). Who needs it? For what? whats wrong with small weddings? Friday afternoon weddings , like it was done in Europe? Why do we need to make Sheva Brochos every day? It was never like that in the past. Why cant a vort be made in a house? Who needs it?

Sara

I really agree… How are families supposed to afford the summer lifestyle in NY. We B”H have large families and the expenses of renting a bungalow upstate on top of the sleep away camps is totally not affordable for the average family.

S209

Seconded

FBR

No, we don’t NEED sleepaway camp or a bungalow upstate. However, we should the right to choose if we want to do so. Removing our right to choose is downright wrong. If sending your child to camp is unaffordable to you, you should not send just like you wouldn’t buy a Jaguar if you can’t afford it.

bob

if you do all dans tricks , you can afford it all

JR

Been resisting commenting on this thread from the beginning. You really have an entitled group of followers. Wishing you and your family all the best and continued health during this time, be safe.

KG

Amen…I’m okay with people disagreeing but eso many act like its such an injustice as if it was out of spite. People are too fill with negativity.

Steve

What happened to the Kawasaki disease? Somehow it disappeared as quickly as it arrived.
It is all politics at this point. It started off with good intentions as a public health issue but we are long past the good intentions part.
Logically sleepaway camps should be safer than day camps where you are self contained.
From the beginning the businesses that were allowed to open made no sense. It’s like they took a dart board and tried their luck.

Joelfreak

You mean this where they have now documented 300 cases?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/29/nejm-inflammation-children-covid19-misc/

Joelfreak

https://floridacovidvictims.com/2020/07/05/carsyn-leigh-davis/
This could be a summer camp. Spend a summer with your kids, its not the worst that could happen.

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