4BM Success!


Update for all of the naysayers: All of the points from these 4 churned cards (30K Starwood+30K Starwood+25K MR+30K Delta) have posted automatically.  Additionally I now have received 8 elite stay credits and 20 elite night credits this year from my 4 currently active Starwood cards.


This post was originally published on 08/26:

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I’ve been doing 2BMs and 3BMs since I started blogging back in 2004. I did it on a whim with 3 Citi AA cards and got 3 instant approvals and coined the method to my madness the “3 browser method” and its made the rounds online ever since. I used to do that every 60-90 days on those cards, but in recent years Citi has gotten much tougher with AA card approvals for people who have had the card in the past.

I recently wrote about the process of a 3BM and an AOR in this post. The advantage is that you increase your odds for instant approvals and you limit the number of hard pulls.  I’ve been known to do a few 3BMs with different banks (Chase works well for me also) as close to the same time as possible.

This past May I did a 3BM with American Express for the Delta Gold Consumer, the Premier Gold, and the Platinum Consumer card. All were approved within a few days without having to call and the points posted for all of them although I have had them all in the past.

You can check approval status with this online tool.

This past Sunday I was feeling brave and for the first time decided to try for 4 cards from American Express. I applied for the Starwood Consumer card and the Premier Gold Consumer card first and then followed up a couple minutes later with the Starwood Business card and the Delta Gold Business card.

I had no instant decisions, but by Friday I had 3 approvals without speaking to anyone. For my last card I got a voicemail to call them up. I gathered my courage and called up, chatted with the offshore rep about his dislike to work on the weekend and his love to relax with a smoke and a bourbon, and after a few minutes he just verified that my address was correct and approved me on the spot.

After that I signed up yet again for Citi Identity Monitor for $1 for the first month (using Citi’s own virtual card number program so that I won’t be charged extra if I forget to cancel) and confirmed that I only had received 1 credit pull for my May 3BM and 1 credit pull for my August 4BM with American Express. In OH, American Express pulls from Experian and Chase pulls from Transunion.

If you make no income on the books I wouldn’t recommend doing this with American Express, but as long as you make something on the books (a DDF member recently passed a financial review with just $6K on the books even though he reported income many times that) you should not have a problem passing a financial review should it ever come to that.

I have had 3 Starwood cards in the past, but this is my first time having 4.  I’ll let you know if I get 8 elite stay credits from this!

Total haul with the limited time promotions will be 60K bonus Starpoints, 25K bonus MR points, and 30K Delta miles.  Plus I can’t wait for Small Business Saturday or for the next AMEX promotion like Gift Chain with so many cards!  Of course my local restaurant looked at me like I was nuts for paying my bill with 4 different credit cards all signed up for $5 off $10 with AMEX Foursquare!

For those keeping score at home, my current active card lineup with American Express is 9 cards:
-SPG Consumer #1
-SPG Consumer #2
-Delta Gold Consumer
-Platinum Consumer
-Premier Gold Consumer #1
-Premier Gold Consumer #2
-SPG Business #1
-SPG Business #2
-Delta Gold Business

And I have 10 active Chase cards:
-Sapphire Preferred Visa
-Sapphire Preferred World Mastercard
-Ink Bold Business (with Chase Exclusives linked)
-Ink Classic Business
-Freedom Visa (with Chase Exclusives linked)
-Hyatt Visa
-United MileagePlus Explorer Visa
-United Club Mastercard
-United MileagePlus Explorer Mastercard
-Southwest Visa

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My mouth just watered from this post!!


BTW, how come I can’t seem to replicate your success? My last AOR I only went 3/6. You seem to never ever be turned down for a CC!!


Nicely done! Now how much in annual fees for renewals ;)


Always call Recon if needed. Don’t let a “no” discourage you from HUCA.
And move to OH where AMEX and Chase pull from different bureaus. In states like NJ, NY, and IL they both pull from Experian I believe. Though for Chase that can be mitigated with freezing.




How do i get a citi virtual card number?


Login to http://www.citicards.com for their online or downloadable app.


Dan- Thanks for the great post. A few questions:

1)I already have a SPG card but I see you have 2. Is that a different card? The linky brought up the same card. Same question for Premier Gold and SPG Business.

2)How often can you re-apply for SPG after closing? Other AMEX cards?

Thanks as always.


How are you able to get bonuses for same card over and over again despite applying within so close to each other and when old is still open?


I have 2 of each of those cards now.

I apply for co-branded cards from AMEX with a blank mileage number and from Chase with a new mileage number and have never had a problem.


And how are you not hit with the “duplicate app” rule with Amex when you apply for more than 1 card in a day? They say second app will be processed a couple days later and according to others, they will pull a second time then.


I’ve never had that problem and neither have other forum members.
In fact another forum member just posted he was approved for a whopping 5BM without having to call in:


@Dan: you must have missed it but quite a few ppl on the forums have had that problem with amex including me twice.


so you mixed business and personal 1 pull? hows that possible?


Just to clarify, When they say that there were too many apps, and they are going to wait 5 days, are they going to do another credit check? Should I just wait, or tell them to cancel the app?


@Dan: So you are saying that even if someone has an SPG card, they can apply again with a blank number, while leaving card #1 open? I know these may be amateur questions, but I am sure I am not the only one. :)


Dan, will i get the 40k signup bonus for the Sapphire Preferred Master Card if I already have now the Sapphire Preferred Visa?



When you churn SPG cards do you open a new SPG time each time to put on the application? Otherwise how do you ensure getting the signup bonus again?

(If you dont want this in public feel free not to let this through and just send me a PM on the forums)



How do you churn the Delta gold card? Same as the SPG? Leave the skymiles blank? Or make a new account beforehand? TIA


no two pulls for business and consumer? pretty sure I saw you mention before that it was most likely to cause two pulls.


I dont understand how do you have 2 of the same exact CC’s?


Also when churning cards (canceling and reapplying??) how long should i wait with the card before canceling and how long between canceling and reapplying


After approval for the spg (leaving the spg# blank?), how do you combine the spg points with your existing starwoods acct?


Also, does “freezing” my Exparian co$t any mulla? TIA


Dan, how do I check the status online of my Chase cc application?


DAN, how come I don’t recall you ever mentioning on the forums that spy and PRG don’t need to be shut before reapplieing? [I can maybe understand spy but having 2 PRG’s open is behind me]


It works just fine with Amex!

I’d just wait. YMMV.

That’s what I did.

Yes though it may auto reject you. Just call recon and explain why you need both or offer to have the Visa closed to approve the MC.



Just 1 pull but YMMV.

I had a reason ready to use (dedicated HSA spending card) but never had to use it as they were approved on their own.

This isn’t a science. Its all trial and error.

There’s a merge option on spg.com

You need to call or wait for it to show up in your online profile.

I have mentioned having 3 SPG cards in the past. Now we know 4 is also possible.


and what about PRG, how’s that possible?


I thought Amex and Chase limited the number of cards you can have open at a given time? I thought Amex was like 3 personal and 2 business or something like that?

So for SPG (I have personal and business already … both applied for and received over 1-2+ years ago) I can just apply again, leave the SPG number blank, and then combine them later on?



How’s what possible? I just did it and it happened without even a phone call.

Apparently not.

That’s what I do. YMMV.


I got a call from amex that I can’t have more then 4 cards open with them how come you have 9?






How long do you wait between your round of applications? I heard it’s best to apply for cc’s every 3 months. Is that the case b/c we have often been getting an initial refection due to, “Too many credit inquiries” . Any suggestions?


Thanks :)


I wonder how u don’t get A/Aed from chase


dan i applied for 4 citicards and got 3 approved – didnt put in my mileage number but still didnt get the sign up bonus – (with one i made a spelling mistake and they gave me a new addavantage number ad got the bonus there)

Is the natural Churn now over and now you need to “Mispell” your name?


I would think it doesnt have much to do with your name since you are still providing your SSN which I would assume is what they go by?


how do they approve you for a card you arleady have?? i’ve never had success with that!

jtown bochur

“using Citi’s own virtual card number program” -what does that mean?
Thanks for the awesome posts dan!!!


Hi Dan,
My credit is not that good (600). Is there any way i can get a cc that is not a secured card? thanks



after getting the SPG cards do you NEED to make up a new Starwoodhotels.com account to see and get the miles ???

please reply

Mimi K.

I did a 5BM W/ Chase just for thrills once.
I only got 2 of them but of course only one pull on Experian


store card

love this blog

” a DDF member recently passed a financial review with just $6K on the books even though he reported income many times that”
link to DDF?


i called chase aboout the sp world mastercard covering the collision damage waiver and they said that israel was excluded. is that a change from earlier?



Exactly, everywhere else I’ve read most people have run into this. Except for those who seemed to have applied for charge cards on the second app, which is the only case for myself my second app didn’t get delayed.


Dan, you’re in CLE? I’m in ROC. We need to meet. :)


I aplyd In 3BM For AMEX SPG Cosumer, Premier Gold, Delta Skymiles All Consumer. I got instant aproved on first two and the Delta it said to call them and now on the status is says “Proccesing” Shuld I call them or wait to aprove Automatic?
Also I have the INK BOLD with chase checking so I would Like you to put this card in the charts VS. other cards even its not avalble anymore. I also want to Know if you think I shuld hold the card even with anual fee because once its closed it cant be get agin?


Also, you leave blank for co-branded reward programs for bonus points, what about the multiple PRG cards?


Hey Dan, I just got declined for Amex Consumer, i HUCA the reconsideration line a few times and they all told me to Fax in my Credit report and a letter.. to the Media Team, do i have to do that…?


Hi Dan, i have no CC in mine name and I recently got declined for Chase Perfered, i HUCA`D a few times but no luck, i have $2000 balance on my credit report from 2008 and a 630 Score, what do u think i should do?


Dan, I want to do the following App-o-rama:

3 Amex cards

3 Chase cards

2 Citi cards

Is this crazy?


Way to go Dan!!!
Presumably the significant other has a comparable card line up.
How about little Rafi?


3 months is a good rule of thumb.

They haven’t been doing A/As of late. And they were more targeting abusers of cards like AARP.

No need to mispell anything. Citi got too hard with the AA cards though and they don’t track by mileage numbers like the other guys do.

@jtown bochur:
It’s lets you create a credit card number only good for $1 and 1 month.

Get added as an AU onto come good cards.

@love this blog:

Chase does not provide coverage, but MasterRental does on the Sapphire World Mastercard, call MasterRental for a letter for coverage.

I’d wait.
It’s a good card, I wouldn’t be too quick to close it.

Haven’t had a problem in the past with it. My one in May was not my first time having it and had no probs getting the points.

Get some help to clean your report.

Not if you follow through.

Lol, not yet.


Guys!!! Stop saying DAN!!!! Its annoying. He doesnt answer people who dont read the post or earlier comments.


after getting the SPG cards do you NEED to make up a new Starwoodhotels.com account to see and get the miles ???
please reply


@Dan I’ve been getting a 50000 mile delta deal in the mail every couple weeks now, is that only available to ppl who get the offer? I see you signed up to 30000.


regarding comment #42 do you know of anything that i can do to get off chase blacklist ?


Dan, Do you think it’s safe to do 3BM with AMEX every 30 days or it’s too soon? Also, if you were to do a 3BM with chase, which 3 cards would you go for to get the most bonus miles?


also, if i have Gold Delta skymiles, should i close it wait 30 days and apply again or just apply while the old one is still open?


Dan, Whats the difference between SPG Consumer card and Business Card?


doesnt too many credit cards ruin your credit score?


Get added an an AU onto come good cards……..

Thanks for your reply Dan, But can you explain?


I’m confused. You seem to always say not to cancel CCs. Yet, you seem to have only a few active cards (19), but claim to open them almost monthly for years…


It’s targeted.

Try to get the credit bureaus to delete the cards from your record as they don’t exist.

Every 30 is pretty aggressive.
Lots of great Chase cards, depends on what you have now.

This isn’t a game with rules. It’s trial and error.

There are a few small differences in benefits.


Have a parent with a good old underutilized card add you onto that card.

When did I say not to cancel credit cards? I said no such thing.
For what I actually said see here:

Also these are my active cards from just 2 banks, I have many more active cards then that.



thanx for responding . Do u mean to say that chase doesnt keep their own blacklist ,and if i get it off my credit report they wouldt see that they closed my cards in 08 for no apparent reason ?


So I’ve heard.


thanks anyways dan, but thats not going to happen, esp if the bill goes to my parent (even if i pay that segment)


You don’t need to use the card, it’s to improve your credit score.


Still cant find on citicards where to get a virtual card.


oh i see, thanks!


thanx will try and keep u posted


Dan, I only have Chase sapphire preffered visa open, the rest i closed and moved the credit line to this one. So what other 3 cards you suggest I open?


Hello Dan! First and foremost big fan of your site. my daughter has just turned 18. what credit card do you recommend as her first under her name? ( help build up her credit)


I was A/A even with out abuse


Is chase sapphire preferred a business cc? I applied for it but it says that I cant link it to my other accounts because it is a business account.


how many minutes apart do you have with the 3bm i did it but one got messed up after the other was submitted and it took an additional 3-4 min before i could submit it


I have the premier gold busnss from october 2011 and they now offer to upgrade to platinum with 25k bonus no spending,
no cr pull. Should i do it. I have the SPG cons, delta options cons and hilton. I would like to do a 4BM for SPG cons, PRG cons, Spg bsnss & Delta gold bsns. You mentioned once that cons and bsnss is 2 sep pulls but now it is one. Please advise if u have other sugesstions. Thanks so much for yr help !!!!


@dan i am applyn 4 the spg business what else do u suggest for a 3bm w one hard pull thanx!


@dan I applied about !:00 am for 2 amex busnss and 2 amex cons and due to a glitch with my internet connection only one went through for spg bsnss. This is the msg I got.

Thank you for applying for the Starwood Preferred Guest Business Credit CardSM from American Express.

We are currently processing your application.

To check the status of your application online, please go to http://www.americanexpress.com/myappstatus

We will contact you when we have completed the processing of your application. Please refrain from submitting any additional applications for the Starwood Preferred Guest Business Credit CardSM from American Express as we are only able to consider your initial request.

American Express Customer Service

Any suggestions what I can do now ?


I just checked the status and the Delta bnss was approved with the SPG bsnss in Progress. So basically my 2 cons apps did not go through. Should I apply again for the 2 cons crds ( SPG and Premier gold) and will this be a pull again even though it is the same day. Also maybe I can try for a 3BM but which one as the third? Thanks again !!!!


Im having a problem getting a virtual cc number, can someone post a link please?


I received a request for permission to see my tax return from AMEX. I had requested a credit increase. Is there any reason to or not to give it to them. I make money on the books.


how long is the spending requirements for the amex 30000 pts.? and is that from the first time i use the card or is there a set date?


dan, can you use Virtual Account Numbers for all trials and the like risk-free


how do you have 2 consumer cards?


The 30K deal is dead now.

The current offer is 25K. You get 10K after the first purchase and 15K for spending $5,000 in 6 months. Though after spending $5K you will have 30K points.

I applied and was approved.


If i wanna get a second spg card do i write that i am an existing spg member? Last time i did it i never got the points because they said that its only for first time. Any help? Thanks again dan.

Steve O'Wales

Hello Dan,

There seems to be an issue with the image that you posted, I clicked on the links by the words CLICK HERE and none of them were in operation, my mouse gave me an option to save the link but all that did was download a picture file to my Windows PC.

Please see if you can fix the links.

Your Truly

Steve O’Wales


So then say no.


@ john. So that means im gonna have 2 accounts with points?


Well I guess that would only work if you didn’t have to call in. If you did have to call in, what possible justification could you have for two consumer cards. ?


Needing 2 cards for different expenses, like for HSA expenses, etc.
I actually had to call in for my 2nd consumer SPG card, they didn’t ask why I wanted 2.



Thanks for sharing you experience. Am I understand correctly, that AMEX in practice does not enforce their “12 month rule” about getting the bonus for the same card?


All I can do is share my experience.
On the Premier Gold card I got the bonus in July and October.
On the SPG cards I got both the bonuses despite currently holding both cards.

There have been reports on the forums of problems with the Mercedes card however.


Dan – I just signed up for the citi identity monitor. Unless i’m not seeing it, it seems that the identity monitor doenst tell you which credit bureau was pulled for each new account. Is this correct? Additionally, I did a big application batch and all my inquiries are showing up except for a barclays inquiry. I’m positive barclays would have made an inquiry as I was approved for the USAir card. Is there a chance barclays didnt do a hard pull? (doubtful)


from my above post – my batch of cards included 2 citi AA cards, 2 chase cards, and the usaircard. Citi monitor is showing a pull from citi, a pull from chase, and none from barclays.