December 2010/January 2011 Trip Planning Thread.

[eliteflyer]

To really bolster your argument for getting the most "bang for your mile" by booking first class awards, a one-way first class ticket on CX HKG-YYZ will run you a whopping $6,626.

[Dan]

To really bolster your argument for getting the most "bang for your mile" by booking first class awards, a one-way first class ticket on CX HKG-YYZ will run you a whopping $6,626.

The price for the entire trip is actually $33,085.
11.8 cpm

[Dan]

Im not having any luck getting CO to sell me a simple CLE-EWR-FRA-BKK-SYD-BKK-FRA-EWR-CLE itinerary.
Has anyone here actually gotten CO to book a ticket to Australia via Europle and Asia?

I asked Seth, who was the one who originally blogged about CO letting him route from EWR-SYD via FRA and BKK, how he did it because I had no luck.

Apparently CO never allowed routing via Europe and South Asia to Australia, he just got very lucky.  He just tried to change his flight now and they're saying it's not valid and they might even void his current ticket for the illegal routing now.  It did sound too good to be true. 
But you can route definitely route via Asia to Australia, which AA and UA don't let.

[steve2]

Nada, that's just the only CX F flight back from HKG that entire week and it's too late to get anywhere else before shabbos.

But now that I think about it, I wonder if that flight somehow bumps into Shabbos?
Any dateline experts here? If you leave HKG at 10:45am and arrive YYZ at 12:35pm will there be any issue?

 not an Expert but just as Important as when you arrive into YYZ is , will you at anytime be on the flight when it becomes Shabbos, before crossing the Dateline. A shiur I attended out in LA a few months ago the guy was talking about flying Asia to LA and from what he said out of Japan/Korea (as thats what was aksed )he said a no go as for a few hrs you will go into Shabbos before crossing the dateline I dont recall the time that the flights were Departing

But all I will say is get as best you can the times down and the flight paths and ask your LOR. The guy was saying how it wasnt simple and best NOT to fly then as there are questions about Davening, saying Kiddush cant do Melacha best is to ask and go with whatever you are told

[Dan]

Just not comfortable with the whole Friday thing between having only, so the trip just became even longer.  I moved the Friday flight to the following Wednesday, which is the only available CX flight in F for 2 passengers to North America from 01/09 through 01/19 according to Award Nexus that's not on shabbos.

I also had to move the HKG-BKK flight from the 23rd to the 22nd to avoid violating the one stopover per city rule.  HKG still falls into the 2 sub-24 hour connections+1 stopover allowed rule.

Hopefully some other flight options will open up, but for now here's how my RTW ticket stands.


Current Itin: Uses all 16 segments allowed (including 1 land segment) under Oneworld rules and is 34,830 miles, just 170 miles shy of costing 330K miles instead of 280K!

Su 12/19 AA 3457, CLE-DFW, 11:30am-1:50pm, First
3:05 connection in DFW
Su 12/19 BA 192, DFW-LHR, 4:55pm-7:35am+1, First
1 night in London at a relative's wedding
Tu 12/21 BA 270, LHR-AMS, 8:40am-10:55am, Business
2:10 connection in AMS
Tu 12/21 CX 270, AMS-HKG, 1:05pm-7:05am+1, First.
14:55 connection in HKG
We 12/23 CX 709, HKG-BKK, 10:00pm-11:55pm, First
Insert Air Asia Flight BKK-HKT here
4 nights split between Bangkok and Khao Lak/Phuket
Insert Air Asia Flight HKT-BKK here
Su 12/26 CX 702, BKK-HKG, 7:05pm-10:45pm, Business
1 night in Hong Kong
Mo 12/27 QF 30, HKG-MEL, 9:50am-9:45pm, First.
6 nights in Melbourne/Great Ocean Road
Su 01/02 QF 2051, MEL-DPO, 8:30am-9:35am, Coach
4 nights in Tasmania
Th 1/06 QF 5720, HBA-SYD, 9:25am-11:10am, Coach.
4 nights in Sydney
Mo 01/10 QF 5842, SYD-HTI, 11:55am-1:25pm, Coach
3 nights in the Whitsunday Islands
Th 01/13 QF 5863, HTI-MEL, 10:55am-2:50pm, Coach
9:05 connection in MEL
Th 01/13 QF 29, MEL-HKG, 11:55pm-5:50am+1, First
5 nights in Hong Kong/Macau
We 01/19 CX 826, HKG-YYZ, 4:35pm-6:25pm, First
1 night in Toronto
Th 01/20 AA 4633, YYZ-LGA, 3:20pm-4:50pm, First
1:05 connection in LGA
Th 01/20 AA 4674, LGA-CLE, 5:55pm-7:40pm, First

[Dan]

Interesting to note that the CX HKG-YYZ segment that I canceled went immediately back into award inventory.
Just in case I change my mind I reheld the flight on a separate PNR.

[steve2]

Interesting to note that the CX HKG-YYZ segment that I canceled went immediately back into award inventory.
Just in case I change my mind I reheld the flight on a separate PNR.

 dan did you ask your Rav what Chabad holds about being on a flight that will eneter Shabbos for a few hours and what you have to do if anything?

[Dan]

dan did you ask your Rav what Chabad holds about being on a flight that will eneter Shabbos for a few hours and what you have to do if anything?

I haven't asked yet, but just having only 4 hours barring any delays in Toronto was a bit too tight.
We could always stay at a YYZ hotel I suppose, but I doubt customs would allow me to bring shabbos food from MEL-HKG-YYZ.

It looks like on FT you said that you flew HKG-JFK on Friday before.  What did you find out when you asked? 
Does it actually become shabbos if you take off at 10:30am or is it thursday again by the time the sun sets?

[steve2]

I haven't asked yet, but just having only 4 hours barring any delays in Toronto was a bit too tight.
We could always stay at a YYZ hotel I suppose, but I doubt customs would allow me to bring shabbos food from MEL-HKG-YYZ.

It looks like on FT you said that you flew HKG-JFK on Friday before.  What did you find out when you asked? 
Does it actually become shabbos if you take off at 10:30am or is it thursday again by the time the sun sets?

 Both times my PEK and HKG flights were on Thurs didnt fly out of Fri , I have to admitt I didnt think about flying into Shabbos for a short period of time, so a very good thing I didnt fly on Fri, but I know many people who go to Asia for Biz and Not 1 of them will fly back on a Fri due to the going into Shabbos thing

I think if it leaves early enough it will be OK but most people are very worried about the Flight being Delayed for whatever reason especially in Winter time here in NY where if the flight leaves late it means it will be delayed turning right around. CO sleeps awhile @ HKG  I believe all other flights are immediate turns. But even HKG has had its flight back to EWR delayed by hours since the flight was so late in getting into HKG even with its very long layover

 If its late in leaving then its not only will you enter Shabbos at all before hitting the DateLine but will a person beable to get Home or wherever if they land very late in NY .

 With HKG being CXs base I would think theyd simply roll out another plane but 1 never knows

 Then if Chabad holds different then others = no problem as long as you left before Shabbos starts then even thou the plane goes into Shabbos you have the Din of it not being Shabbos You wouldnt have to worry, something that non-Chabadniks do have a serious problem with. But that doesnt help with when you land @YYZ only with what 1 must do or doesnt have to do while on the flight

If you or any other Chabad person gets a chance to ask their Rav please do so and post back , what a person has to do if their flight enters Shabbos for a short period of time and how to know when exactly that is. To avoid such circumstances most non-Chabad people just dont fly on a Fri back to the US, and it could very well be that even Chabad people avoid doing so as well for the same reason, I dont know thats why I asked

[Dan]

Both times my PEK and HKG flights were on Thurs didnt fly out of Fri , I have to admitt I didnt think about flying into Shabbos for a short period of time, so a very good thing I didnt fly on Fri, but I know many people who go to Asia for Biz and Not 1 of them will fly back on a Fri due to the going into Shabbos thing

I think if it leaves early enough it will be OK but most people are very worried about the Flight being Delayed for whatever reason especially in Winter time here in NY where if the flight leaves late it means it will be delayed turning right around. CO sleeps awhile @ HKG  I believe all other flights are immediate turns. But even HKG has had its flight back to EWR delayed by hours since the flight was so late in getting into HKG even with its very long layover

 If its late in leaving then its not only will you enter Shabbos at all before hitting the DateLine but will a person beable to get Home or wherever if they land very late in NY .

 With HKG being CXs base I would think theyd simply roll out another plane but 1 never knows

 Then if Chabad holds different then others = no problem as long as you left before Shabbos starts then even thou the plane goes into Shabbos you have the Din of it not being Shabbos You wouldnt have to worry, something that non-Chabadniks do have a serious problem with. But that doesnt help with when you land @YYZ only with what 1 must do or doesnt have to do while on the flight

If you or any other Chabad person gets a chance to ask their Rav please do so and post back , what a person has to do if their flight enters Shabbos for a short period of time and how to know when exactly that is. To avoid such circumstances most non-Chabad people just dont fly on a Fri back to the US, and it could very well be that even Chabad people avoid doing so as well for the same reason, I dont know thats why I asked

If the plane is delayed you simply wouldn't get on.
If the plane sits on the tarmac for hours, well that's when you clutch your chest and say "It feels like there's an elephant sitting on my chest."
With CX having a base in HKG I'm sure they can swap another aircraft in case of a late inbound.

Anyway why are you so sure that non-Chabad rabbeim don't permit traveling on friday from HKG-JFK?  Funny how you were singing a different tune on FT.  This exchange is from the first 2 posts from the number one google result on "hkg-jfk friday dateline"  I haven't read through the whole thread yet.

For those who travel to Asia and cross the date line there is always the question regarding the Halachic dateline. Usually it's not a big deal. I will be flying from ICN at 11am to JFK leaving on a Friday. I have done this flight a few times but on Thursday. It will get dark on the way and according to some it would be Shabbat. What am I to do regarding using the restroom as when you lock the door the light goes on? Does anyone have any experience with this?

No problem what so ever, that is what every Rabbi thats worth anything and knows anything will tell you.

 Why? Simple cause when you are flying ICN-USA you are traveling back in time so when it becomes night time its not Fri night but a repeat of Thurs night.

 Now 2 things, when I once left TLV on the 2nd day Yom Tov being I was living in Israel I held 1 day.The only BA flight out for a  reward tkt was the 2nd day , I arrived @ LHR 10 mins before Yom Tov was over there, so all was OK. Then I had the same question as you, bathrooms, reclining my seat,using the IFE etc etc. I was told the plane itself has the Din of Eretz Yisroel so no problem at all.

 #2- Left HKG at 11:30am and went back in time, didnt know what to do Davening wise, so I kept to my reg sched of chopping M&M at my Shul back in NY. Asked the Rabbi and he agreed that Maariv and Shaharis didnt have to be repeated. But 1 can always put on Teffillin anytime during the day and make another Bracha. But that the Obligation falls out 6 times during a normal week and since I did it alreday for the Weds of that week, I was OK.

[steve2]

If the plane is delayed you simply wouldn't get on.
If the plane sits on the tarmac for hours, well that's when you clutch your chest and say "It feels like there's an elephant sitting on my chest."
With CX having a base in HKG I'm sure they can swap another aircraft in case of a late inbound.

Anyway why are you so sure that non-Chabad rabbeim don't permit traveling on friday from HKG-JFK?  Funny how you were singing a different tune on FT.  This exchange is from the first 2 posts from the number one google result on "hkg-jfk friday dateline"  I haven't read through the whole thread yet.

 I actually didnt remember that thread but will go in and change somethings now, as it seems at least with ICN-LAX and others that from the guy giving that shiur that its very possible that a flight may actually go into Shabbos before crossing the dateline. From everything I went thru and spoke over with a Rav after my PEK flight (after only cause I ddint know what was going to be , no DD for me back then nor anything on FT that I recall).

  and Polar routings seem to have their own problems as well and I heard that some people were told they couldnt do anything on the flight when flying on YT Sheni, although I was told no problem what so ever, again a very good reason when it comes to these things why each person should consult their LOR

 But I never flew on a Fri back from Asia always was Thurs at the latest if I remember correctly

 as to CX it makes sense that they would have a spare or 2 but do they, CO doesnt and Im talking about EWR & IAH

 If a person hasnt boarded yet and is told if you dont fly then the next day space is available for an Award tkt or the fare basis you are on is in x number of days well some people might decide to board anyway. Yea it would nice to think everyone wouldnt but if told 'Dont board your tkt is void and you will have to purchase a full fare 1 way tkt, well some people will decide they cant afford that and will deal with things on the ground when they arrive

 Over the yrs Ive seen people I know where out of the Country show up at Sharris on Shabbos with their car in their driveway when it wasnt there Fri night. Of cause they were the talk of the shul the rest of that Shabbos. So Im no longer amazed at what someone would do when in a situation that is troubling

 Again I said above the shiur in LA discussed Korea and I believe Japan if it applys to HKG or PEK etc etc I dont know, dont know if it applys to a SYD or MEL non-stop either. But after that shiur I for sure will try and Never fly Asia to US on a Fri w/o having made sure that I wouldnt go into Shabbos or if I would what if anything I would have to do if it does before actually getting onto such a flight. Then again I usually fly coach so getting a seat isnt as hard as when in FC or Biz

 aslo the guy was talking about problems flying LY to TLV from LA which arent found when flying from the East Coast

[aussiebochur]

I asked Seth, who was the one who originally blogged about CO letting him route from EWR-SYD via FRA and BKK, how he did it because I had no luck.

Apparently CO never allowed routing via Europe and South Asia to Australia, he just got very lucky.  He just tried to change his flight now and they're saying it's not valid and they might even void his current ticket for the illegal routing now.  It did sound too good to be true. 
But you can route definitely route via Asia to Australia, which AA and UA don't let.

Here is his post about it...
He is lucky. I would love to do that trying out Virgin Upper Class, Emirates and Air NZ up front. Shame its not gonna happen...

[Dan]

Su 12/19 AA 3457, CLE-DFW, 11:30am-1:50pm, First
3:05 connection in DFW
Su 12/19 BA 192, DFW-LHR, 4:55pm-7:35am+1, First
1 night in London at a relative's wedding
Tu 12/21 BA 270, LHR-AMS, 8:40am-10:55am, Business
2:10 connection in AMS
Tu 12/21 CX 270, AMS-HKG, 1:05pm-7:05am+1, First.
14:55 connection in HKG
We 12/23 CX 709, HKG-BKK, 10:00pm-11:55pm, First
Insert Air Asia Flight BKK-HKT here
4 nights split between Bangkok and Khao Lak/Phuket
Insert Air Asia Flight HKT-BKK here
Su 12/26 CX 702, BKK-HKG, 7:05pm-10:45pm, Business
1 night in Hong Kong
Mo 12/27 QF 30, HKG-MEL, 9:50am-9:45pm, First.
6 nights in Melbourne/Great Ocean Road
Su 01/02 QF 2051, MEL-DPO, 8:30am-9:35am, Coach
4 nights in Tasmania
Th 1/06 QF 5720, HBA-SYD, 9:25am-11:10am, Coach.
4 nights in Sydney
Mo 01/10 QF 5842, SYD-HTI, 11:55am-1:25pm, Coach
3 nights in the Whitsunday Islands
Th 01/13 QF 5863, HTI-MEL, 10:55am-2:50pm, Coach
9:05 connection in MEL
Th 01/13 QF 29, MEL-HKG, 11:55pm-5:50am+1, First
5 nights in Hong Kong/Macau
We 01/19 CX 826, HKG-YYZ, 4:35pm-6:25pm, First
1 night in Toronto
Th 01/20 AA 4633, YYZ-LGA, 3:20pm-4:50pm, First
1:05 connection in LGA
Th 01/20 AA 4674, LGA-CLE, 5:55pm-7:40pm, First

Man is it hard trying to arrange hotels for a month-long trip like this, expecially during peak season!!!

Here are my thoughts, I'd love to hear anyone's critiques and suggestions!

-Sunday night in BA F.
-Monday night in London.  There's a SPG cat 2 (3,500 points) or cat 3 with cash and points (2,300 points+$45) at LHR, though their rates are so cheap I may just pay.
-Tuesday night in CX F.
-Wednesday and Thursdays night in BKK I have comped at a SPG hotel.
-Friday and Saturday night in Phuket/Khao Lak.  I guess I'll spend the 2 nights at the cat. 3 Le Meridian Khao Lak with cash and points. (4,600 points+$90 split into separate reservation from mine and my wife's plat accounts)
Their oceanfront private pool suites look 100% awesome, but they apparently don't ever give comp upgrades to them (exp in peak season) and it's 16,000 SPG per night to upgrade to it...
-Sunday night in HKG.  I traded 4 PC passes to an FT'er on CC for a night at the cat. 4 Marriott SkyCity right at the HKG airport!
-Monday night at the Park Hyatt MEL, 15K Hyatt.
-Tuesday night along Great Ocean Road.  Probably in Apollo Bay area, but I'm still trying to find something affordable there.  I may wind up at the Crownw Plaza Torquay for 25K PC points per night, but I really would like to stay further along the GOR than that.
-Wednesday night in Hall's Gap in the Grampians at an Aboriginal hotel for $65.
-Thursday night at the Park Hyatt MEL, 15K Hyatt.
-Friday and Saturday night in MEL.  Maybe at the Park Hyatt MEL...any shuls nearby?
-Sunday night in Strahan, Tasmania, still looking for a good deal.
-Monday night at Freycinet, Tasmania, still looking for a good deal.
-Tuesday and Wednesday night in Hobart, Tasmania, still looking for a good deal.
-Thursday night at the Park Hyatt SYD, 22K Hyatt.
-Friday and Saturday night in SYD.  Maybe at the Park Hyatt SYD...any shuls nearby?
-Sunday night at the Park Hyatt SYD, 22K Hyatt.
-Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday night in Airlie Beach or in the Whitsunday Island, or on a boat to the Great Barrier Reef...not really sure yet!  Suggestions?
-Thursday night in QF F.
-Friday and Saturday night in HKG.  I guess at the Sheraton Kowloon where I can use 2 free weekend nights.
-Sunday night at the Spg Cat 5 W HKG in Kowloon with cash and points (4,300 points+$90)
-Monday and Tuesday night either at the Grand Hyatt Macau (how much time do you need in Macau?) or at the W HKG, which unfortunately has no cash and points for these nights as of now.
-Wednesday night take 1 in CX F
-Wednesday night take 2 at the spg cat. 3 Westin Harbour Castle Toronto with cash and points (2,300 points+$45).
-Thursday night: HOME SWEET HOME in our good ole' W bed!

[aussiebochur]

East Melbourne Shul is right near the PH MEL. The Rabbi, Dovid Gutnick is a really nice guy and would probably be more then happy to have you over for meals. His email is on the website.

[Dan]

East Melbourne Shul is right near the PH MEL. The Rabbi, Dovid Gutnick is a really nice guy and would probably be more then happy to have you over for meals. His email is on the website.

Less than a mile away, awesome!!!

[Dan]

These Qantas problems are getting me nervous...2 planes in 1 week at the same airport!

Maybe they'll just start offering a SIN-SIN routing?  I wonder how many miles that gets?

[steve2]

Man is it hard trying to arrange hotels for a month-long trip like this, expecially during peak season!!!

Here are my thoughts, I'd love to hear anyone's critiques and suggestions!

-Friday and Saturday night in HKG.  I guess at the Sheraton Kowloon where I can use 2 free weekend nights.

 ?? it cant be using the FWNs can they as they exp 12/19 and I havent heard anyone getting them extended

 and only Cats 1 & 2 have reduced pts for weekends so do you mean you will simply use pts for the stay which is no different then any other night?

 btw I CXed a Suite at the St Regis Rome on a FWN for tommorrow night in order to stay an extra day in Florence, no suite here and had to go thru a workout to get out of my 1st floor Plaza non river view to a much smaller 2 balcony room with a full river view which they claimed costs less then the assigned room. I told them for a place like Florence its all about the View and not the size of the room which isnt small persee but is apx 1/2 the size of the 1st room. So $$ wise I will do worse then I could have , but Ive got a great big :-) on my face since I get an extra day and night in Florence.

  My Pt the game isnt Only about maxing out how much in value a person is getting, if it was I should have stuck with The St Regis which would have been an easy 2x what Florence is worth if not 3x . My Florence room I ended up with is 400+ euro St Regis was over 1000 euro

[AsherO]

?? it cant be using the FWNs can they as they exp 12/19 and I havent heard anyone getting them extended

 and only Cats 1 & 2 have reduced pts for weekends so do you mean you will simply use pts for the stay which is no different then any other night?

 btw I CXed a Suite at the St Regis Rome on a FWN for tommorrow night in order to stay an extra day in Florence, no suite here and had to go thru a workout to get out of my 1st floor Plaza non river view to a much smaller 2 balcony room with a full river view which they claimed costs less then the assigned room. I told them for a place like Florence its all about the View and not the size of the room which isnt small persee but is apx 1/2 the size of the 1st room. So $$ wise I will do worse then I could have , but Ive got a great big :-) on my face since I get an extra day and night in Florence.

  My Pt the game isnt Only about maxing out how much in value a person is getting, if it was I should have stuck with The St Regis which would have been an easy 2x what Florence is worth if not 3x . My Florence room I ended up with is 400+ euro St Regis was over 1000 euro

This is like the famous 'sunk cost' equation:

Assume you have spent $300 on a weekend ski trip to Michigan.  Several weeks later you buy a $150 ticket for a weekend ski trip to Wisconsin.  You think you will enjoy the Wisconsin ski trip more than the Michigan ski trip.  As you are putting your just-purchased Wisconsin ski trip ticket in you wallet, you notice that the Michigan ski trip and the Wisconsin skip trip are for the same weekend!  It’s too late to sell either ticket, and you cannot return either one.  You must use one ticket and not the other.  Which ski trip will you go on?

In a study where they presented this question to people, most of those surveyed replied that they would prefer the Michigan trip over the Wisconsin trip (i.e. the more valuable, but less fun, choice).

[steve2]

This is like the famous 'sunk cost' equation:

In a study where they presented this question to people, most of those surveyed replied that they would prefer the Michigan trip over the Wisconsin trip (i.e. the more valuable, but less fun, choice).

 

 I dont understand Dan doesnt have 2 different Hotels or Citys booked. He only said he was planning to use 2 Free weekend Nights at the Sheraton and I simply didnt understand why he put it that way

In case you dont know SPG had a promo months ago you get a free weekend night for every 3 stays you had, besides that Cat 1 & 2 cost 1000 pts lesws for a weekend night

Now the free weekend nights must be used by 12/19 which is before Dan will be flying (actually that same day) and the Sheraton in Kowloon is not a Cat 1 or Cat 2 = I am lost in understanding what he meant by what he posted

[Dan]

http://www.spg.com/mastercardfreeweekend